I am not surprised. The congregation figures over the next few years will be very interesting.
slimboyfat
JoinedPosts by slimboyfat
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33
Three congregations dissolved and a kingdom hall sold within a 50 mile radius in my area...
by UNCONDITIONAL LOVE inhas anyone else heard of these situations with congregations and halls in your area?
i thought the ground breaking mandatory pledge a little while ago was to keep up with "immense" growth?
how soon they forget... looks really bleak for the future of the wbats, the jw gravy train seems to be coming to a slow and agonizing yet inevitable stop.
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30
ARC report released today.. and phew!
by zeb in"the response of the jehovah’switnesses and watchtower bibleand tract society of australialtd to allegations of childsexual abuse".. this report is 110 pages.
it is imperative to look it up on the arc website each and every one of you.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/getattachment/c2d1f1f5-a1f2-4241-82fb-978d072734bd/report-of-case-study-no-29.
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slimboyfat
Now some 7,000 JWs have now done the check, were issued their cards and complied with the law. This was a victory for those who took on the cause and a slap in the face to the governing body.
This kind of adversarial response, even to positive developments, doesn't encourage JWs to reform further. Ex-JW activists should consider: is their aim to reform Watchtower or to humiliate Watchtower. Because adversarial responses seeking the latter may be counterproductive to the former.
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30
ARC report released today.. and phew!
by zeb in"the response of the jehovah’switnesses and watchtower bibleand tract society of australialtd to allegations of childsexual abuse".. this report is 110 pages.
it is imperative to look it up on the arc website each and every one of you.. http://www.childabuseroyalcommission.gov.au/getattachment/c2d1f1f5-a1f2-4241-82fb-978d072734bd/report-of-case-study-no-29.
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slimboyfat
Australia isn't a little country. It's massive. In fact it's perhaps the only country that can also claim to be a continent.
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53
Are the J.W's reaching a "Tipping point"?
by karter ini haven't been to a meeting in 15 years but my mother and sister are hard as j.w's.
the brothers they are appointing elders are at best suspect like one guy from my old hall made elder,big time drug used before becoming a j.w his talks are all over the place and would have struggled to make m,s years ago but with at least 60 to 70 % of young ones leaving the pool to pick from is at best reduced.. 2 other recent elders both young and zero life experience both on benefits one not well at all falls asleep all the time.. the decent,kind elders mostly older and are decent people with alot of life experience are burning out fast as there are so few of them left like 3 per congro of 100 publishers.. then you have the rich elders who wouldn't ever think of inviting some poor older or mis-fit person out to the expensive placers they go to as they couldn't afford to go so they are above the r&f and the r&f get pissed off with them.
then we have the ones who have "put the kingdom 1st" who are now old worn out and barely getting by from welfare cheque to welfare cheque that are saying "the system should have been over many years ago" it's still here and they are struggling everyday.. then there are the pioneers who have a low payed reduced hour job that seem to think anyone who has anything is totally materialistic and looks down on anyone getting a new car buying a house ect.. along with the child abuse issues,the generation change,access to information the the g.b don't want anyone to know ,not to mention the issues around blood.. is there a tipping point coming????
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slimboyfat
SBF - your comments on reasons why decline is inevitable are among the most perceptive you have ever written.
Steady on there Steve. You know I've written a tremendous amount of inciteful stuff over the years. Let's not declare this post the winner so hasty.
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53
Are the J.W's reaching a "Tipping point"?
by karter ini haven't been to a meeting in 15 years but my mother and sister are hard as j.w's.
the brothers they are appointing elders are at best suspect like one guy from my old hall made elder,big time drug used before becoming a j.w his talks are all over the place and would have struggled to make m,s years ago but with at least 60 to 70 % of young ones leaving the pool to pick from is at best reduced.. 2 other recent elders both young and zero life experience both on benefits one not well at all falls asleep all the time.. the decent,kind elders mostly older and are decent people with alot of life experience are burning out fast as there are so few of them left like 3 per congro of 100 publishers.. then you have the rich elders who wouldn't ever think of inviting some poor older or mis-fit person out to the expensive placers they go to as they couldn't afford to go so they are above the r&f and the r&f get pissed off with them.
then we have the ones who have "put the kingdom 1st" who are now old worn out and barely getting by from welfare cheque to welfare cheque that are saying "the system should have been over many years ago" it's still here and they are struggling everyday.. then there are the pioneers who have a low payed reduced hour job that seem to think anyone who has anything is totally materialistic and looks down on anyone getting a new car buying a house ect.. along with the child abuse issues,the generation change,access to information the the g.b don't want anyone to know ,not to mention the issues around blood.. is there a tipping point coming????
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slimboyfat
I think JWs may be approaching a collapse in numbers or at least a significant decline. Because while JWs in some respects seem to be carrying on as before, with smaller increases, beneath the surface the core of the JW community has been steadily eroded. So that what appears as a solid structure, may have been reduced to an empty shell, awaiting a shock that will trigger collapse.
For years now we've had:
No book studies in homes to promote sense of community.
Special pioneers laid off, no longer providing backbone to many congregations.
Gilead missionaries no longer sent to promote growth in expanding territories.
Office of district overseer scrapped, so circuit overseers now have little prospect of "promotion".
Traditional form of door to door ministry undermined by being replaced by ineffective and disheartening cart witnessing.
Weird overlapping doctrines that don't even make sense on their own terms any more.
A growing realisation among many JWs that the organisation does have at least some problems with handling abuse, and the media are not totally lying about the subject.
Young JWs are choosing not to get baptised.
Instead many are choosing to get an education despite "counsel" to avoid.
The stance of JWs on gay people is now so out of step with mainstream society it is beginning to cause serious embarrassment, in particular for young JWs.
The average age of JWs is increasing. (Always a strong predictor of religious decline as shepherdless pointed out)
There is so little substance to the Watchtower literature these days there is little to keep JWs intellectually occupied.
Hardly anyone is converted to JWs through the ministry these days.
As print literature is abandoned, even the sense of achievement of "placing" physical literature is removed.
The idea that 1914 is any kind of anchor for the end times looks increasingly ridiculous.
Thousands of former bethelites have been reassigned, disheartened and disillusioned to local congregations.
Bethel service is a less realistic goal for young JWs as printing is being abandoned.
Decline breeds decline. The numbers have already turned south in many western countries, and declines have a tendency to reinforce further decline.
All these developments, and more, haven't produced significant declines yet. But they may have undermined the coherence and integrity of the JW edifice, such that it is now very vulnerable to any shock or trigger it may encounter. -
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Interesting cross reference
by Steel inhebrew 1 8-12 .
but about the son, he says: “god is your throne+ forever and ever, and the scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.
you loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness.
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slimboyfat
Yes a particularly difficult passage for JWs for a few reasons:
1. Appears to apply scripture about God to Jesus.
2. Uses the word "Lord" in OT quote without translating it Jehovah in NWT.
3. Says that the earth will wear out and perish.
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491
What is your opinion of the news media?
by minimus into me they have an agenda and they really don't care about professional journalism.
most are untrustworthy and that's a shame.
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slimboyfat
When even Fox News says Trump has crossed a line, I think it's time to stop pretending what's happening here is neither novel nor disturbing. What Obama never did was call journalists "enemies of the people".
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491
What is your opinion of the news media?
by minimus into me they have an agenda and they really don't care about professional journalism.
most are untrustworthy and that's a shame.
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slimboyfat
I gather all the news I neeed from the weather report.
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20
Round and round the not so marigoround
by Coded Logic ini find most theist arguments to be either confused or dishonest at best.
and most of them i regard with mild annoyance.
but there is one track of thinking that is so stupid it really gets under my skin: when, in order to try and prop up "faith", people try and tear down reason and critical thinking.
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slimboyfat
I agree that definite claims about God, his existence or nature are also presumptuous.
My favourite believer is Rowan Williams because he is anything but presumptuous.
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Round and round the not so marigoround
by Coded Logic ini find most theist arguments to be either confused or dishonest at best.
and most of them i regard with mild annoyance.
but there is one track of thinking that is so stupid it really gets under my skin: when, in order to try and prop up "faith", people try and tear down reason and critical thinking.
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slimboyfat
Maybe you find the theistic response which questions human rationality most troublesome because you find it difficult to formulate a "reasonable" response.
Somehow we don't find it difficult to accept that a dog will never work out a value for Pi or compose a sonnet.
Yet we find it more difficult to accept the possibility that questions of divine being, ultimate existence, purpose and evil, may be beyond human understanding.
Why do we presume that the human mind is equipped to settle such matters one way or another?