i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
In order for resurrected and current non JWs to be treated the same then non JWs would need to be in the new system and judged on their future works just the same as the unrighteous who will be resurrected.
If the new teaching is that people need to come into the truth to survive Armageddon then what has changed?
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
My mistake, I do find the phrase “heart condition” in recent Watchtowers.
Does this Watchtower talk about heart condition of survivors? If so how does this reconcile with the statement that it makes no difference when a person dies to their chances of getting into the new system?
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
As far as I know JWs don’t use the phrase “heart condition” any more. That’s old terminology. Where are you getting the idea that survival is based on “heart condition”? Is it in the latest statement and Watchtower and I missed it?
What the statement said was that an unbeliever at Armageddon has the same chance as an unbeliever being resurrected. Since JWs have long believed that billions will be resurrected (the Reasoning book speculated that the earth could cope with and feed 20 billion) it is reasonable to wonder whether the recent statement really implies that billions will survive Armageddon. If that’s not what they meant, or if they backtrack, as it stands it is a reasonable inference from what they have said.
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
But it is clearly not as it makes the Big A pointless.
You seem to be operating on the assumption that if it doesn’t make sense then it can’t be what they’re saying. Is that a safe assumption from the same people who brought us the inflatable rolling generation?
They do seem to be saying that people alive at Armageddon have as good a chance of surviving as the billions who died beforehand. If they really mean that then it would mean billions surviving. Does that make any sense in view of everything else they teach about God and salvation? No, it doesn’t seem to make sense at all. But that is to state the problem, not to solve it.
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
The anticipation has always been that most who have died will be resurrected except certain cases like Pharaoh and the Pharisees.
If the same standard is applied to those who are alive at Armageddon this would seem to imply that billions probably would survive.
Presumably for them to survive the end of the thousand years they would need to convert and not follow Satan in the final rebellion, so billions could still end up being destroyed then.
That would be remarkable if that is the new position. I think it needs clarification.
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
That does seem to be the logic of what they’re saying, even if all their statements are not consistent at the moment.
It does seem to be a major change and it will be interesting to see how it goes. Presumably they will either explain how billions possibly surviving Armageddon makes sense in their overall teaching or they may backtrack on the implication of their latest comments. Either would be revealing of the current mindset of the GB. The fact we’re at the point where this needs clarification indicates movement by the GB in a more liberal direction.
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
You can’t. You’ll be saved and you’ll be happy about it. 🙂
If JWs fully embrace universalism then this will be a massive step in the right direction because I think it’s true.
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
he needs to retract his statement that this new light is a nothing burger.
Why? Does anyone care what he says nowadays? Let him prattle on whatever, it doesn’t impact anything much.
uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.
The result is that Lloyd's videos are becoming less informative …
Less informative. Is that even possible? I can almost feel him scooping into my brain and removing reams of information at a time. Watch a few of his videos and you’ll soon end up knowing nothing at all.
mark jones writes:.
how will history treat joseph rutherford?.
like ben gorden has said, it would depend on who’s looking back.
People sometimes change. I have a theory that Rutherford started out as a nice person and turned into quite a nasty ruthless person later. I can’t remember where it was, but something I read indicated that he had a really good relationship with his wife early in their marriage and that he was a more pleasant person all round in his younger years. Something went wrong for Rutherford to turn him into a different person. What was it? It was his time in prison in 1917. It really turned him into a bit of a paranoid crank and a ruthless manipulator. His health suffered badly during his time in prison and he never recovered for the rest of his life. It made him bitter, angry, and cynical. Everything bad about his character: the drinking, scheming, misogyny, paranoia, arrogance, jealousy, crude and cruel behaviour, all come after his imprisonment 1917. I’m not the first to make this observation, but I think there may be something to it.
