Posts by slimboyfat

3144

It's been a long 9 years Lloyd Evans / John Cedars (continued)

by Simon in

jw
friends

uh oh, looks like the mega thread gave up the ghost, so while i investigate / fix it just continue the discussion here .... it's been a long 9 years lloyd evans / john cedars.

slimboyfat

If Watchtower really is now teaching that it’s not necessary to accept the truth and become a JW before the great tribulation, then what’s the point of being JW? I mean apparat from if you enjoy it, if it has no bearing on whether you’ll ultimately survive Armageddon then what’s to stop people taking the option of sitting back and waiting?

Why would they make this change? I can’t think of any financial or legal motivation, as behind so many of their changes, so why do it? It doesn’t make any sense.

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

slimboyfat

This comment from July WT 2016 implies that at least some had the “earthly hope” already in 1919. I’ll keep looking for something more explicit.

“Has this promise of unity come true in our time? Yes. Initially, the prophecy began to be fulfilled in 1919 when God’s people were gradually reorganized and reunited. Satan’s attempts to divide them permanently had been thwarted.
At that time, the majority of those reunited had the hope of becoming kings and priests in heaven with Jesus. (Rev 20:6) Symbolically, they were like the stick for Judah. However, as time progressed, more and more of those with an earthly hope started to join themselves to these spiritual Jews.”
w16 July p. 31

36

The secret 10 year plan to save the watchtower .

by gavindlt in

https://youtu.be/pszy22hzj8o.

new light?.

https://www.dadseekingtruth.com/.

slimboyfat

My local congregation has baptised three newish people in the past year or so. Two of them were long term studies and the other was contacted via letter in the pandemic and is a bit odd, but not off the scales odd, just a bit lonely and isolated.

The JWs do still seem to attract a steady trickle of new people, not as many as they did in the past, and now usually individuals, not whole families as in the past.

As I’ve said elsewhere on this forum, the current growth and recruitment of JWs looks poor until you compare it with almost any other church around. Many other churches have next to no new members, they are decreasing every year, and the vast majority of their members are over 60, many of them well over 60.

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

slimboyfat

I’ve had a look and not found anything yet. Does anyone else remember this?

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

slimboyfat

The latest teaching is that anointed and other sheep were selected by Jehovah without regard to the time period. Taken as stated this would imply that a Christian in the first century could just as easily have been of the other sheep, and a new convert in 2024 could be anointed. This throws a spanner in the works of any calculation about how many anointed could have lived where and when.

36

The secret 10 year plan to save the watchtower .

by gavindlt in

https://youtu.be/pszy22hzj8o.

new light?.

https://www.dadseekingtruth.com/.

slimboyfat

Here’s a past discussion.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/218141/rise-rise-paul-gillies

If he was 57 12 years ago that makes him nearly 70. I’d say there’s little chance of them appointing a 70 year old. He’s missed his chance.

36

The secret 10 year plan to save the watchtower .

by gavindlt in

https://youtu.be/pszy22hzj8o.

new light?.

https://www.dadseekingtruth.com/.

slimboyfat

We’ve been discussing Paul Gillies’ ambitions on this site for years. He was perhaps disappointed that he wasn’t appointed with the latest two who were promoted to the GB. He is older than the new GB members (late 60s?) so it’s now beginning to get a bit late for him to secure a spot on the GB.

36

The secret 10 year plan to save the watchtower .

by gavindlt in

https://youtu.be/pszy22hzj8o.

new light?.

https://www.dadseekingtruth.com/.

slimboyfat

If they drop shunning I think they’ll do it gradually in a way that doesn’t involve any great climbdown. They’ll just suggest that a little more contact with disfellowshipped people is reasonable, then a bit later talk about “reaching out” to people who’ve left the faith for whatever reason, and before you know it the days of hard shunning will be over. The change might then be papered over by a mixture of saying the light/truth gets brighter/clearer, Jehovah is merciful, it’s a new “provision”, and so on, plus downplaying how harsh shunning used to be in the past. That’s how they could get radical change on shunning over a period of a decade or so without having to effect a big climbdown or explicitly admit their previous policy was wrong or inhumane. I don’t think they need any outside advice on how to go about that, because they’ve managed similar changes on their own, for example when they watered down their opposition to ‘alternative service’ in the 1990s, which was a huge change for those affected but didn’t involve any mea culpa on the part of the GB.

I don’t think they’d tie in any change with jubilees or cities of refuge or anything like that because 1) they have abandoned the typology involved in such applications of scripture in recent years and 2) an explicit amnesty could imply a fault with the previous practice when they are not in the habit of admitting fault and don’t find it necessary when making even big changes anyway.

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

slimboyfat

TonusOH, not much different than the claim that most of the 2 billion who currently claim to be Christians are mistaken. If you’re inclined to accept or reject one you’re already inclined to accept or reject the other.

Vanderhoven7 it is Stark who argued that the figures in Acts are unreliable, not me.

What Stark’s projection shows is that it’s perfectly possible that Christianity got off to a slow start in the first century and yet nevertheless became the majority religion by the mid 4th century. The line could easily have been steeper in the first decade and then slower after that, which would be compatible both with the figures in Acts and the implication of Watcthower teaching that there were fewer than say 70,000 Christians in the first century.

Remember Watchtower is not claiming that history can prove their idealised numbers are correct. It’s opponents of JWs who imply that their numbers are historically not possible. I think Stark’s projection shows that they are possible because growth from small numbers compounds slowly at first but gains momentum over time.

43

How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

by Vanderhoven7 in

according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

.

slimboyfat

According to sociologist Rodney Stark there may have been as few as 40,000 Christians by mid second century when JWs believe the great apostasy was well under way. So their numbers would fit neatly with this model, allowing for 40,000 early Christians and 100,000 faithful wheat among the weeds over the centuries, and during the last days.