bjc2012

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Posts by bjc2012

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  14

  October 7, 2001 - A Date of "Infamy" ...

  by MDS in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  october 7, 2001 -- a date of "infamy" for all jehovah's witnesses earthwide .

  upcoming "events" & the "great tribulation" upon mystery "israel" -- jeremiah 30:7; matthew 24:21, 22; rev.

  7:14. the bible makes a number of serious "predictions" about the future of mystery "israel," ... whom i propose to be jehovah's witnesses of our time.

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  bjc2012

  bttt.
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  25

  JW Theology and the NY disaster

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if i am misquoting the theology espoused by jws then please correct me.. but i am trying to appreciate their theology as far as death and armageddon are concerned.

  we know that the jw belief is as follows: "he who has died has been acquitted of his sin".

  this is often used to imply that almost all who die prior to the great tribulation or armageddon will receive a resurrection of life or judgement (ok we know sodom dudes, judas and the flood victims wont get one according to jw theology).

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  bjc2012

  msil,

  Do you understand what Isaiah 2:2-4 is saying? Is this what is occurring with JWs today? Can they prove that they are the elevated ‘house of Jehovah’ that stands out as being clearly distinctive from all other religions? Based on your statements, I don’t believe that you have ever been a Witness. As an outsider, can you state that you recognize that they have God’s backing, that they are an elevated religion, a ‘mountain that is firmly established above the top of the mountains (all other religions)?’ Are people from all nations (not 200 and some lands) streaming to it (this elevated mountain)?If not, then verse 2 of Isaiah chapter 2 has not been fulfilled.

  Verse 3 shows that ‘many peoples’ not just JWs will urge others to go up to this elevated mountain and be taught about Jehovah. JWs believe that they have ‘all truth,’ but as many on this board can attest to, their message is tainted, truths mixed with untruths. They do not have a clear handle on understanding and explaining prophecy. So much of what they teach is guesswork. This is not what is meant by the statement: “For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem.” (Verse 3)

  Obviously verse 4 has had no fulfillment unless you consider their explanation of how it applies to JWs today.

  My point is this: this scripture will be fulfilled before Jehovah judges the world of mankind in the manner Zechariah 14:12 indicates. The ‘Jerusalem’ spoken of in this verse is this ‘elevated mountain.’ True worship will be so obvious to everyone that no excuse will be acceptable for not embracing it! As it stands today, this is not the case.

  The main reason that this elevated worship is not in existence is that Isaiah 60: 21 has not occurred. It reads: “And as for your people, all of them will be righteous…” Needless to say, disfellowshipping 40,000 plus yearly proves they are not righteous.

  How will this righteousness be attained? Isaiah 30:26 and Micah 4:6 tell us. The operative word is DISCIPLINE. Hebrews 12:11 states in part: “…yet afterwards to those who have been trained by it (discipline) it yields peaceable fruit, namely righteousness.”

  Why do they need to be disciplined? They are in the grievous state of idolatry, yes, they have put another ‘god’ before Jehovah. No one needs to be reminded that this is no minor matter for a people who are called by God’s name. How could a situation such as this be allowed? Isaiah 27:11 reads in part: “…For it is not a people of keen understanding. That is why its Maker will show it no mercy, and its own Former will show it no favor.”

  This is the situation that JWs find themselves in today; therefore their message is not a judgment message. Nor do they represent Jehovah as his ambassador to the rest of the world. So if your knowledge of Jehovah and what he will do is based upon what JWs say or how they act, then it is sorely lacking.

  bjc
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  25

  JW Theology and the NY disaster

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if i am misquoting the theology espoused by jws then please correct me.. but i am trying to appreciate their theology as far as death and armageddon are concerned.

  we know that the jw belief is as follows: "he who has died has been acquitted of his sin".

  this is often used to imply that almost all who die prior to the great tribulation or armageddon will receive a resurrection of life or judgement (ok we know sodom dudes, judas and the flood victims wont get one according to jw theology).

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  bjc2012

  MSIL,

  I quoted that verse to show you that JWs have not fulfilled it. You cannot make a decision on what kind of god Jehovah is until you see his word being fulfilled. The world will not be judged on the basis of what JWs have done up to this point. When Isaiah 2 has been fulfilled, then you can talk about the verse at Zechariah 14:12 being fulfilled. We are not quite there yet.

  bjc
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  25

  JW Theology and the NY disaster

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if i am misquoting the theology espoused by jws then please correct me.. but i am trying to appreciate their theology as far as death and armageddon are concerned.

  we know that the jw belief is as follows: "he who has died has been acquitted of his sin".

  this is often used to imply that almost all who die prior to the great tribulation or armageddon will receive a resurrection of life or judgement (ok we know sodom dudes, judas and the flood victims wont get one according to jw theology).

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  bjc2012

  MSIL,

  I disagree - how many Old Testament passages should we look at?

  
  
  Fine, let's begin with Isaiah 2:2-4.

  Verse 1: ".. the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains."
  Verse 2: "..and to it all the nations must stream."
  Verse 4: "And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples."

  bjc
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  25

  JW Theology and the NY disaster

  by msil in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if i am misquoting the theology espoused by jws then please correct me.. but i am trying to appreciate their theology as far as death and armageddon are concerned.

  we know that the jw belief is as follows: "he who has died has been acquitted of his sin".

  this is often used to imply that almost all who die prior to the great tribulation or armageddon will receive a resurrection of life or judgement (ok we know sodom dudes, judas and the flood victims wont get one according to jw theology).

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  bjc2012

  BW,

  Not my idea of a sane God!

  Nor is this what the Bible teaches!

  bjc
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  119

  Validity of 607 BCE date

  by stevieb1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anyone on here ever come across the tiniest shred of evidence supporting this date for the fall of jerusalem.

  i understand rolf furuli is about to but something out on this subject (see elihubooks.com), however even a table of contents has been a long time in coming from this site.

  if no evidence exists what can he possibly be writing about?

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  bjc2012

  Scholar,

  All of this discussion to prove 607 as the starting date for the 'seven times' of Daniel chapter 4 is immaterial if you cannot prove that Nebuchadnezzar received this vision and Daniel interpreted it before Jerusalem's destruction. Daniel 4:22 appears to indicate a time later than Jerusalem's destruction unless, of course, you have proof to indicate otherwise. If so, please elucidate.

  bjc
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  23

  For those questioning the F&DS

  by ArgCampeon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  an interesting scripture reminds us to be careful of those that question every good thing that the f&ds does:.

  titus 1:10-16 .

  "10 for there are many unruly men, profitless talkers, and deceivers of the mind, especially those men who adhere to the circumcision.

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  bjc2012

  ArgCampeon,

  but I was not promoting my thinking among the congregation.

  Neither was I. I simply spoke to one elder and that was that. But, that's neither here nor there at this point. What I would like to know is when and under what circumstances do the elders apply Paul's words at Titus 1:13?

  bjc
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  23

  For those questioning the F&DS

  by ArgCampeon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  an interesting scripture reminds us to be careful of those that question every good thing that the f&ds does:.

  titus 1:10-16 .

  "10 for there are many unruly men, profitless talkers, and deceivers of the mind, especially those men who adhere to the circumcision.

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  bjc2012

  ArgCampeon,

  That is why apostates need to be cut off from the congregations

  Did I miss something? I did not see the words 'apostate' or 'cut off' in the scripture that you quoted. However, I did see these words: "Keep on reproving them with severity that they may be healthy in the faith." How do your leaders practice this? By throwing anyone who does not agree with them out of the organization and then treating them as though they don't exist. I don't believe that this is what Paul meant by 'keep on reproving them with severity.' The end being 'that they may be healthy in the faith.'

  bjc
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  69

  "AHA! AHA! OUR EYE HAS SEEN IT!"

  by You Know in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the question has always been, primarily: is jehovah really god?

  secondarily, the question has been: are jehovahs witnesses really jehovahs witnesses?

  or, perhaps worded differently: is the watchtower really the voice of christs appointed faithful and discreet slave of prophecy?

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  bjc2012

  You Know,

  For calamities encircled me until there was no numbering of them.
  More errors of mine overtook me than I was able to see;
  They became more numerous than the hairs of my head,
  And my own heart has left me.

  A few verse up in the Psalm is the verse that the apostles attributed to Christ were the roll of the book foretold he would offer himself; yet, in the ongoing conversation that the messiah is having with his God, he says that he has been overtaken by his numerous errors.

  As in the case of Christ, only Jehovah can save his anointed sons from the calamity that is due to overtake them.

  What is your basis for applying these words to Jesus? When did Jesus' errors overtake him and what errors were these? The bible speaks of him as being error-free. (1 Peter 2:22)

  Then you glibbly transfer these words to your so-called anointed brothers. If Romans 6:18 applies to anointed ones, then this verse cannot apply to them. It reads: "Yes, since you were set free from sin, you became slaves to righteousness." If they were set free from sin, how can they commit so many errors that these overtake? They certainly could not be considered to be getting any help from holy spirit if this is true.

  If you give careful consideration to these verses, you may see that they apply to persons who are not anointed.

  You need to also take another look at verse 6 which reads, in part: "...These ears of mine you opened up..." This is not what Paul quoted. He said at Hebrews 10:6: "You prepared a body for me." Now there is quite a difference between 'opening my ears' and 'preparing a body for me.' And yes I know that Paul quoted from the Septuagint, but my question is why the difference in wording. See also Isaiah 50:5.

  I don't agree that the 'case is closed.'

  bjc
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  4

  WT Defence of House to House Preaching PT.2

  by stevieb1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i am doing an intensive analysis of my beliefs as a jw, and would like any comments on this further defence of the house to house preaching methodology put out by the wts.as far as i can tell no-one has yet refuted this comment:.

  *** w91 8/1 24 "from house to house" ***.

  "from house to house".

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  bjc2012

  Stevieb1,

  German scholar Hans Bruns justifies his translation, "from house to house," at Acts 5:42, saying: "According to the original text, it seems as if they went from house to house." Yes, kat´ oi'kon, the original expression in this text, is not used in an adverbial sense ("at home") but in a distributive sense, literally meaning "according to house." (The plural form, kat´ oi'kous, meaning "according to houses," is found at Acts 20:20.) Other scholars, such as Heinz Schürmann, substantiate the distributive translation of these expressions. Horst Balz and Gerhard Schneider, publishers of an exegetical dictionary to the New Testament, say that this expression can be rendered "house after house." A number of English reference works explain this verse similarly.

  Fine. Now please explain why the NWT translates this very same expression as 'private homes' at Acts 2:46, if it could not also mean this. I noticed that one of your scholars used the expression 'seems as if'. Sounds kind of Watchtowerish. Another said 'can be rendered.' Doesn't sound too definite, as in it can also mean somethng else.

  Luke 10:7 says: "...Do not be transferring from house to house." If you check your interlinear, you will find that there is a different Greek expression used here. It is 'oikias eis oikiav.' What do your scholars say this expression means?

  At Acts 20:20, Paul says, in part: " ..while I did not hold back from teaching you publicly and from house-to-house (private homes)," was he not differentiating between a public ministry and a private one? Or is he saying he taught them publicly and publicly since the house-to-house work is also a public ministry? Since he was speaking to elders of the Ephesus congregation, would not his teaching them have been in their private homes?

  bjc