Posts by c.dawn

9

JW's view on patriotism

by c.dawn in

my sister is a jw .

i studied with the witnesses at the same time as she but i questioned too many of thier belkifs that didn't make sence to me so they gave up on me.. my christian church does allow patriotism.

we feel god gave us this land( america) and are forever grateful to him.

I've never bowed down to my nation. I said I love it. I love God more then I love my country. I love God over my own children. But , that doesn't stopping me from loving them. I call being in a religious cult. (Jehovahs Witnesses) like my sister, who knows they have changed their prophesies more often then Kerry has changed his mind on issues. And will not question one thing she is told, although Gods aid to prove all things and not just what the head of an organisation tells you. THAT'S what I call idol worship.

9

JW's view on patriotism

by c.dawn in

my sister is a jw .

i studied with the witnesses at the same time as she but i questioned too many of thier belkifs that didn't make sence to me so they gave up on me.. my christian church does allow patriotism.

we feel god gave us this land( america) and are forever grateful to him.

c.dawn

Actually, I said I believe God did give us this country because he promised Abraham, for not with holding his only son from him, that he would give his seed ( his future decendants) a nation that they would settle into and that it would be a young nation but that it would rise to greatness wealth and power in a very short time. Historians have traced many of the lost tribes of Israel to what was to become known as free countries and on into England and the US .

Also, any ancient historian can tell you that not even the Holy Roman Empire, or Solomon , in all their riches and glory,ever rose to the height of wealth and power that the Unites States had. No other nation, even to this day even to this day can take that claim.That's historical facts, not bragging.

As far as conquering nations. This might sond harsh, but God did allow Israelites to go through antions and drive out or overcome the inhabitants. You'll ahve to take that up wtih him. His creation, his lands. he can do what he wnated with it.

Do I think he condoned slavery? No. He allowed it for a time, because man stopped listening to him and wanted to do it their own way. And their own way was owning slaves.By the way, in many Middle Eastern countries slavery is still legal and openly practiced.

Countries were importing and exporting slaves LONG before the US was settled.And they were still dojng it long after slavery was abolished in the late 1880's in America. Slavery was still legal in Saudi Arabia until 1961 and only became outlawed because Kenndy harranged them about it. It's still practiced, although more discreet. Same goes for the Sudan.

As far as what happened to the native Americans. My opinion is there is a great sadness there.They really respected the land and only took what they needed from it. On the other hand, many nations were hell bent on settling the land what was later to become the United States of America,and it was going to happen regardless who did it.

Who's to say that if say, Saudi Arabia had setled the US that they wouldn't still be enslaving native Americans today.

(I know the Saudi's weren't trying to settle the land). But many aggressive nations were, who thought nothing of owning slaves.

SOMEBODY was going to settle that land and it wasn't going to go too well for the native anyway you looked at it.

But, you know in some foreign countries, the "natives" of that country are still considered low class and mistreated.

Whos to say it wouldn't be much worse for the Native Americans if say, Germany or France owned this country.

Black slavery in US? I think it was horrible. Being sold like possessions. Your kids sold in front of you. It was an evil, but the evil did have some good of an outcome as ironic as that might sound. .Black peoples ancestors sacrificed and suffered and now they have a better life for it. I've talked to many black friends who say they would NOT want to be living in Africa, or the Sudan right now, where they could very well STILL be sold into slavery.That they hate the way they ended up being in the US, but yet still glad they DID end up here. I don't know of many blacks in my town planning on making a mass exodus to Africa. I'd like to go ona trip there, but my black friends have said, "Hell no, give me Hawaii"

Instead of talking about how agressive we Americans are. maybe give us some credit for the agressions we stopped. For coming to the aid of people who called out to us for help. We aren't perfect. We made some bad decisons for sure, But don't make us out to be all evil and agressive and out to overtake the world. That was Hitlers dream, not ours.

As I re-call France had their hand in some of the Indo china conflicts before we did.

But, no one remembers that. It's now the "IN" thing to only remember what we have done wrong. Or what people percieve we have done wrong

BY the way, I'm German American and have relatives in Germany. Don't know a single one of them who is mad at the US for "agressively" stopping Hitler.

8

JW's and Patriotism?

by c.dawn in

i posted this earlier but can't find the post.

don't know if it got lost in cyber space or i'm just blind.

but, i can't find it.. my sister is a jw from around 1985. i was studying on and off with them, at the same time, but asked to many probing questions and wasn't getting satisfactory answers.then felt god led me elsewhere, where i have continued to grow in biblical knowledge.in my church you are encouraged to prove everything the minister says to you.

c.dawn

A poster asked why would someone love a country and why would God bless America.

It's natural to have fond memories and even love for the place you grew up. Unless you had horrible memories of it. My husbands Chinses and grew up in Vietnam. he was in Saigon during the war. he hated the war. but has such fond memories of his childhood.

Why would God bless America? Well, maybe he isn't much anymore, since we are shedding alot of our morals that we we used to have.

But, I feel in the past God did bless us. And many other God fearing countries also Not just us.

For a country to be so young ( as far as being settled) and to have risen so high in such a short time. We didn't do that by our own might alone. Our forefathers realized this.

Sometimes people from other countries will make comments about US arrogance or us being so different in beliefs then them. Some" wierd Americans". I think they forget that America has alot of their nations people living here too. Except for the Native Americas, every person here had an ancestor that was from another country. They brought over their attitudes and cultures and beliefs. I guess we are different then many other nations since we have so many nations living under one "roof" so to speak.

8

JW's and Patriotism?

by c.dawn in

i posted this earlier but can't find the post.

don't know if it got lost in cyber space or i'm just blind.

but, i can't find it.. my sister is a jw from around 1985. i was studying on and off with them, at the same time, but asked to many probing questions and wasn't getting satisfactory answers.then felt god led me elsewhere, where i have continued to grow in biblical knowledge.in my church you are encouraged to prove everything the minister says to you.

c.dawn

Hi,

I posted this earlier but can't find the post. Don't know if it got lost in cyber space or I'm just blind. But, I can't find it.

My sister is a JW from around 1985. I was studying on and off with them, at the same time, but asked to many probing questions and wasn't getting satisfactory answers.Then felt God led me elsewhere, where I have continued to grow in Biblical knowledge.In my church you are encouraged to prove everything the minister says to you. You're allowed to discuss, debate and disagree with any doctrine or scripture point in question.

Anyway, we are also Patriotic in our congregation. Not to the point that we put it as more important as God. But, we feel he has blessed (Here in America) us by giving us this land. So, we're thankful for it and we do love our country, although maybe not agree with all the polictics.

Some of our hymns have patriotic themes. "God Bless America" etc.

BUT, my religion also stresss that God is first in all things. But , we also know he allowed the Israelites to be patrotic towards their country, as long as they didn't adopt pagan practices to show it.

I know JW's stay out of politics and don't salute the flag etc.I can understand that they feel that's what they should do. But, when I so much as mention my love for my country, my sisters lip curls up in disgust and she says SHE has no love or loyalty to ANY country, only God. as though I put my country over God if I have a deep fondness for it. After all, it's been good to me, ( who was born here) and also my husband who was born in a third world country. He said even the middle and poorer classes here live like kings, compared to people of middle and lower class in his former country.

My sister says she doesn't consider any country to be her country . That Gods going to "smash em" all up at Armagedden anyway.

I wanted to mention to her that my other sisters son in the military, is risking his life, just so she can have the freedom to trash talk and disrespect the place that was so good to her.( She was also born on the fourth of July).

I know not all JW's are like this, but before she got in with them, she was kind, compassionate, loved her country and fellow man.

Now she seems kind of knowing and arrogant. as though "We know the truth and youuuuuu don't". Her kids are behaving the same way.

Yet, when she sufferred her nervous breakdown and her husband lost his job.They were behind in all their bills. It was I and my husband, the lowly, non JW's, who were the ones who sent her money, paid for her medication and bought her children school clothes. And took the four kids to stay with us and fed them for weeks at a time when she was ill. Few, if any helped her from her congregation. At one point when it got too much for my husband and us to handle I called her congregation and asked them if they could assist her in anyway. We lived two hours drive away.

Anyway, back to the Patiotism thread. I told my sister how I felt after she turned up her lip in disgust at my mentioning love of country ( It was around Thanksgiving) and I saw her eyes flicker in anger, but I was just not going to listen to it anymore.

Why do JW's think you can't love your country and love God too? Are all JW's taught to despise ones country? I understand not putting it before God, but why despise it?

Please explain.

dawn

17

Faithful and Discreet Slave "class"

by snbdye2000 in

i have a question as to who the wtbts teaches is the faithful and discreet slave.

i am not a jw, never have been.

my husband though is reading a lot of their books and such.

c.dawn

snbdye2000

actually there are other Christian religions out there that believe that Jesus isn't God. That, he's in the God family, but he is Gods son and not God himself.And that we don't go to Heaven or hellfire upon death. Church of God Seventh day. And Church of God International ar two Iknow of. They can be researched on the web.I have heard the are about 15 other groups. i just can't name them off hand.

The JW's don't have the monopoly on that belief. They just try and control you more with theirs. My sister and her kids are absolutely loyal and controlled by the organisation. I think because we were so insecure as kids and had no true family togetherness. I think it makes her secure being with them. They tell her what to think, what to do, how to raise her kids. Who she can and can't see.She likes the way they stick together and shun the outside world.

She's so loyal and programmed, that even though they have changed a great many of their doctrnes and prophesies. She refuses to obey God and prove all things. No matter what truth is put before her of their "flip flops" and false predictions,By the way, thier own past literature condemns them, so they refuse to read any older literature. They're told not to.I'm not sure how far back of literature they're allowed to read.

she was so adamant about some of her beliefs

18 years ago when she joined them. Swore they were true and given to them by God and therefore set in stone. Have now been changed or discarded altogether.

All she'll say about it when I ask her is, ,"Well, we have new light" Talk about being brainwashed.

Cheryl

9

JW's view on patriotism

by c.dawn in

my sister is a jw .

i studied with the witnesses at the same time as she but i questioned too many of thier belkifs that didn't make sence to me so they gave up on me.. my christian church does allow patriotism.

we feel god gave us this land( america) and are forever grateful to him.

c.dawn

Hi,

My sister is a JW . I studied with the Witnesses at the same time as she but I questioned too many of thier belkifs that didn't make sence to me so they gave up on me.

My Christian church does allow Patriotism. We feel God gave us this land( America) and are forever grateful to him. Yoiu don't know how many people I have met( including my husband from communist or third world countries that tell me how blessed we are.) That someone above (God)bestowed a great gift on us to allow us ride so high as we have, in blessings and prosperity. The middle class here live as kings compared to their countries and our poor are miles ahead of the poor in their countries. Our poor lives better then their middle class. So, we do sing patriotic songs occasionally in services. God bless America, etc. as long as it doesn't over ride our faith or allegiance to God. meaning. Gods comes first in all matters. But, we know that God did allow the Israelites to be have pride for their country

They were allowed to have national celebrations as long as they didn't come from paganism.

I know JW's don't salute the flag. I can understand that. But, my sisters total lack of care or concern for this country bothers me. ( she was born on the 4th of July too) .If I talk, in any kind of affectionate tone about this country. How grateful I am to have grown up here and not in a country where women are practically like slaves. Where there is no freedom etc, her face literally curls up in dislike. She did it again when I saw her after Thnaksgiving.. I was talking about how Thankful I was to be born here. And how I feel God gave us this land. And her lip curled up in disgust and she said something to the effect, "I don't even care about the fact I'm a citizen. America means nothing to me. . All countries mean nothing to me. I just happen to have been born here.

"I don't spend time thinking about being an American she said." I have no loyalty to this county or any, " Only to God."

She seems to think you can't love your country and God at the same time..That if you love your country you must not care much about God.

And I was thinking. "My nephew is in a foreign land. Risking his life to make sure you, and your "of age" sons still have the right to put down this country, that has given you so much".

Is this the belief and attitude of most JW's. Their disdain and dislike of any pride or grateful ness for their country? They must abhor it or they are being disloyal to God?

Please

6

what is jdubs & other questions

by c.dawn in

i'm not a jw but my sister and her kids are.

can you tell me what jdubs means?

i see it referred here often.

c.dawn

Hi,

I'm not a JW but my sister and her kids are. Can you tell me what jdubs means? I see it referred here often. Also, do JW's still sell their literature when they go door to door ? And if so, what do they say as far as how they ask for the money.

I know they used to come to my door ( last times was 1992) and ask if I'd like to buy the publication for the price of copying it.

Also, are many of you still very active in the organization, or rarely attend services, meetings etc,?

I sometimes see posts about that weeks study, so I thought maybe some people here still attend them..

At Bible studies, meetings ( don't know what you call them), do you have a topic selected before hand and then refer to the Bible for your sole source of answers, or do you refer to church literature to get your answers? Are people allowed to ask any question they want about the topic your studying?

How many wish you could just walk away?

Just walk out the door, put up your hands to the sky and yell, " Free, Thank God, I'm free at last". and head on down the road. ( Kind of what I did when I was 18 and left our abusive home)

If you are still active in the organization, attend services, etc, yet would really like to be able to leave the organization. What is the main reason you stay in?

How does that effect your inner self as far as having to suppress your true feelings and just sit in services like a good dutiful, obedient JW?

Sorry for all the questions. I got the impression by some posts that the main reason some people won't leave is because of the real possibility of being shunned by family members. I can see how that would be an affective control tool. Do you think the organization knows very well that will cause some people to think twice before deciding to leave?

My sisters greatest desire for her children is that they grow up to be good obedient, faithful, JW's

Thanks for any input.

C.dawn

32

JW's and interracial marriage?

by c.dawn in

my nephew a jw who is white is dating another jw who is black with the intent to announce their engagement soon.. i had been reading about the past history of the jw's opinion of the black race.

old writings that said they were gods people too, but not intelligent as white etc and not qualified intellectually to go door to door to teach etc.that all people would be white in the new system.. i had read of a rope being run down the pews of the fellowship halls to separate the races during services during the 50's early 60's at the halls that did allow intergrated services... this was supposed to have taken place even up to a few years after de-segregation in the schools and other public places took effect.. that in some areas they had their own hall to meet at and the whites had theirs.

at one point the members of the black hall had asked to meet at the white hall as their building was being repaired or soemthing and they were told no, that some of the members of the white hall wouldn't understand or approve.. and i read that even up into the late 90's, many black members still weren't being given postions or responsibilities that whites had held since the beginning of the jw's.. i was just wondering how far they've come along to improve this image and if anyone knows thier opinion of interracial marriages.

c.dawn

Hi,

My nephew a JW who is white is dating another JW who is black with the intent to announce their engagement soon.

I had been reading about the past history of the JW's opinion of the black race. Old writings that said they were Gods people too, but not intelligent as white etc and not qualified intellectually to go door to door to teach etc.That all people would be white in the new system.

I had read of a rope being run down the pews of the fellowship halls to separate the races during services during the 50's early 60's at the halls that did allow intergrated services..

This was supposed to have taken place even up to a few years after de-segregation in the schools and other public places took effect.

That in some areas they had their own hall to meet at and the whites had theirs. At one point the members of the black hall had asked to meet at the white hall as their building was being repaired or soemthing and they were told no, that some of the members of the white hall wouldn't understand or approve.

And I read that even up into the late 90's, many black members still weren't being given postions or responsibilities that whites had held since the beginning of the JW's.

I was just wondering how far they've come along to improve this image and if anyone knows thier opinion of interracial marriages.

Anyone have personal experiences on it?

Thanks. C.dawn