Posts by dubstepped

40

Upcoming Tidal Wave of Media Onslaught targeting Jehovah's Witnesses ahead...

by TerryWalstrom in

at least three media venues have undertaken the daunting task of unpacking the insidious dark side of jehovah's witnesses' organization.1.

douglas quenqua is a writer based in new york.

his work has appeared in the new york times, wired, redbook, and cnbc.

dubstepped

It seems like things are really building and it's good to see. More people are being inoculated against them and every time it happens someone wakes up too.

7

Upcoming Newsweek article on the JWs?

by Whynot in

i haven't confirmed whether it's true.

someone shared this on social media https://www.instagram.com/p/bjfidvsjvlo/.

the cover won't be released in the usa instead bernie will be on the cover.

dubstepped

Lol, JWTalk is the place to go for reasoned, well thought out replies to any number of important subjects. It's where I go to get the facts on any relevant topic really.

Those people are nuts. I can't believe I was a member there at one point in a last ditch effort to find somewhere I belonged. I spent most of my time questioning what they were saying and getting in trouble for speaking up, lol.

Armageddon is just around the corner. Sure, make enough right turns and eventually you're just going around in almost a circle with no end, but that way if it ever happens then you can say you were right.

11

jw dad invited me to the KingHall next Sunday!

by JunkYardDog in

jw
friends

i said i'll go, just bring me the wt study for next week.

i'll study and test it.

and every time there is a lie, i'll stand up speak up and expose the lie in the wt study.

dubstepped

Dawg, you're wasting your time fighting me. I'm not your enemy here. I don't care if you call Bethel or not, and although I personally wouldn't waste my time yelling at people that don't care, if you do then knock yourself out. Maybe you shake someone up there.

My comment was simple on purpose, record this KH activism that you say you're going to do. You're muddying it up with all of your insecurity and defensiveness. Just record the damn thing so we can all enjoy it. I think we'd all like to see how it goes in real life. You put out an interesting thing that you are going to do, so I'm interested in it like others here. It's not my type of activism, but it takes all types, so go do it and share it here. Maybe you inspire someone else to do the same.

And finally, I never asked for your credit nor do I need it. I also never accused you of bullshitting. You went there yourself.

I'm sorry the dubs have taken so much from you. You seem like one hurt person. I hope you find peace someday. I'll leave your posts alone. You can't seem to handle my comments. If you did some activism in the past that you put out there and that helped people then that's great man. Your original post had nothing to do with that. I made a simple post. You took it elsewhere.

50

Receiving so much hate recently....

by stuckinarut2 in

jw
friends

well, as you all know, my wife (unstuck) and i are not df or da.. we just stopped attending several years back after my "apostate" online activity was found by a nosey employee of ours while she was working in our office (long story if anyone wants to know - it would have to be another thread).

we never met with any elders - no congregation judicial activity occurred (as we would never consent to do so anyway).

so our policy has been to be the same kind, loving, normal people we have always been.

dubstepped

Sorry man, you two don't deserve it as people, they just think you do because they're so mislead. They truly can act horrible. We disassociated and I certainly didn't try to keep friends, and somehow I just stopped running into them even though I used to all the time when we were out. I think it was Jehovah's rich blessing.

Anyway, once it starts like that you can bet it will spread like wildfire. Nobody talks about other people like dubs do. I like the quote that great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events, and small minds discuss other people. JWs are notorious for their gossip.

You've got friends here, and I love that you have a few in real life there.

11

jw dad invited me to the KingHall next Sunday!

by JunkYardDog in

jw
friends

i said i'll go, just bring me the wt study for next week.

i'll study and test it.

and every time there is a lie, i'll stand up speak up and expose the lie in the wt study.

dubstepped

Don't tell us, show us. Get that video rolling as you do this stuff, or wear a voice recorder.

In fact, since you like to do this, why wait for an invitation. Go show 'em what's up anytime.

35

Sometimes it's the little things....

by dubstepped in

jw
friends

i'm listening to a podcast where a former elder describes how another elder conducted the watchtower study about hyperbole.

the elder called it hyper-bowl.

soon the whole congregation called it hyper-bowl.

dubstepped

Lol, my thread about how easily humans follow unquestioningly, especially in a cult, has turned into how weird JWs say words or how uneducated they are.

I can't remember the Bible name now, but my friend was supposed to give a talk on one guy and he gave it on another guy with a similar name. Many of us noticed, but the school conductor was clueless. Then again, he'd have people work on pro-NOUN-ciation, so that shows what we were dealing with. That elder was one of the three to go over my baptismal questions. I thought I failed because I put the answers in my own words and he couldn't grasp them and would correct me word for word out of a publication. He was dumb.

43

My Personal Atheist Manifesto?

by dubstepped in

so, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.

this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.

i love this guy.

dubstepped

"Catholic" JWs, I like that. I wonder if I knew dubs while I was in that had such differing beliefs and their own little created corners of the world that revolved around their independent JW mental status. I can kind of see how if one can make it what they want, not what it is, then perhaps it's easier to believe (after all, it's your own personal version) and stay.

43

My Personal Atheist Manifesto?

by dubstepped in

so, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.

this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.

i love this guy.

dubstepped

Alright, so hopefully those that were following along (if anyone really is) are caught up. I haven't heard back and I'm wondering if I will after this last email. Obviously I'm only posting excerpts. I left the personal niceties out. I like this guy. I think he means well, and I think he's sincere. I think many that believe are. I have no problem with that at all. I do have some problem with people that are sincere but that support such an awful organization that I feel does so little actual good in the world like the JWs, but still, he's trying to do good in his own way and working with what he has today. Who knows what mental and emotional and other tools he may have in the future that might help him leave the cult and maybe he does carry on belief in god, that's fine too. I hope I hear back, but I may have pushed too hard with my questioning. I only thought that if it was fair for him to question me, I should be able to do likewise, even if I maybe went too far with it for him. If I hear back I may update the conversation. He could just be busy with dub stuff, as he was for a bit last time.

43

My Personal Atheist Manifesto?

by dubstepped in

so, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.

this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.

i love this guy.

dubstepped

So what I found fascinating here is that he is an apologist for the JWs, but it seems like he's invented his own version of the cult inside the cult. Like he has his own rules, his own little circle of people that play by those rules, and somehow he's insulated from the rest of the cult. I mean, he has to hide in order to contact me so that his wife doesn't find out. It's so interesting to me. I'll post my reply to him below:

I think a fundamental difference between you and I resides in the way that you kept saying that you "choose to believe". At a point I too chose to believe, and once I realized how much I was lied to and what was kept from me, I could no longer make that choice. I can't just believe without some solid evidence, and choosing belief means taking a leap of faith for me, something that I can no longer do. I have no trust.

So then, I have to ask. Why do you have this trust? You've seen so much exposed from the organization. Or do you have trust? It honestly seems like you aren't really one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you're definitely going against direction from the faithful slave so you can't trust them implicitly as you are supposed to as a faithful servant of Jehovah. It seems like you're kind of an independent JW, a Christian more than a JW. I say that because Jehovah's Witnesses, while believing in Jesus, call themselves Christians but don't seem to exhibit his qualities but more reflect the authoritarian God that they name themselves after. Christians seem to show more mercy and love for everyone than JWs do. It was a big point of contention for my wife, when she was trying to reconcile the Jehovah of the Hebrew Scriptures with the Jesus of the Christian Greek scriptures. Jesus does not reflect the vindictive and violent God of the first half of the Bible.

What do you think about supporting an organization that you know has created a culture where children are abused and members are not encouraged to go to the police? Why is the organization handling criminal matters in the first place? Does it bother you? How do you reconcile that?

You're talking to me. You know that you're supposed to shun me. On one of the recent JW Broadcasting videos the member of the governing body literally threw people like me away in a demonstration like trash into a wastebasket. My parents threw me away, as did my siblings, as I had done to my own brother. My wife's family threw her away. Witnesses throw away their parents, their children, friends, other relatives, etc. You and I know that the organization says that it is loving, but you know that it's not, as you're here sending your love. You know that Jesus never shunned. How do you support this when it goes against who you are?

I applaud you and have great respect for what you're doing in trying to be authentically you. You've been able to pick and choose what aligns with your core values and what doesn't and created this hybrid JW culture for yourself. Obviously it goes against the direction of the faithful slave, and you have worked that out somehow internally to be consistent with who you are. How do you feel about having to hide these discussions and these things that you read or watch? Even if it doesn't bother you, does it bother you that it would bother those around you? In other words, you're doing such an amazing job of being authentic, but yet it seems like you still really can't be authentic in the religion, not totally.

Oh, and one last thing that I have to ask. Why DO you believe in Jehovah? I don't mean because people are helped by the Bible, as they are hurt too, as you're talking to one such person out of many, not to mention the numerous deaths surrounding the book and divisive beliefs over the centuries. And I don't mean a higher intelligence necessarily, as even I think there could be something out there greater than us humans, though I don't call that possibility God. And I don't mean that we're in the last days because of prophecy, because it isn't fair that if North Korea looks irritated then it's a sign and if North Korea looks like peace is coming then that's a sign, because it can't be both ways, and we could always be living during the Crusades or at times where the lifespan was super short and the common flu could wipe out millions. And I don't mean that it is has worked for you on some level, giving you a life that feels good or family and friends because so many people on the outside have that same thing too. And I don't mean because you love helping people because there are charities around the world that truly help people on a daily basis and people like me that clearly have a heart to help but that don't believe at all.

So, why do you believe in Jehovah, specifically? Why that god out of all of the others? Why that god with his track record of killing more people in the Bible than Satan? Why that god despite his not reflecting Jesus? What qualities of Jehovah draw you, not qualities seen in someone like Jesus that are attributed to Jehovah, but why do you put your life, your trust, your choice, your everything in Jehovah? You told me a lot of what feel to be ancillary reasons, but why specifically Jehovah?

I ask these questions because I'm genuinely interested. Again, like you I'm not trying to be condescending. I just see things differently. I'm not trying to convert anyone. I have no specific belief to convert anyone to. You've just described so much that sounds really tough surrounding the organization that you called yourself an "apologist" for, and haven't really given it enough praise to make it sound worth devoting one's everything to, hanging one's hopes on, and supporting while so many are hurt by it. I think I'm looking for those definitive reasons. Or maybe it's kind of what you said, it is a choice, it is something you feel is right but can't really put down in so many words.

I did always struggle to connect. I asked my mom one time how I was supposed to connect to a god that I couldn't see, couldn't feel or talk to directly, a god that was all powerful but that there was nothing I could clearly connect to? I spent so long chasing that feeling. The only time I got it was when I was paying off the enormous tax debt and even then I wasn't doing what I was "supposed" to do according to the organization. I felt like I was being blessed despite the organization, not because of them, and it messed with my head. Then later I would just attribute all of that to the fact that I was doing smarter things and that therefore better things happened in my life. So even my connection that I thought I had ended up to be fleeting.

Oh, and as an aside, you make a good point that evolution doesn't necessarily describe what started everything. It only shows how things changed, or evolved, throughout time. The point of origin, the abiogenesis, is something that still isn't understood. That doesn't necessarily mean that God was the start, not the God of the Bible, but it could. Even science has to leave room for that possibility. Science is interested in finding the truth, and challenging it over and over again, which is why even gravity is a theory. It is accepted as general truth, but it still must be challenged. They must allow for that. They can't explain abiogenesis anymore than a believer can explain how Jehovah could have existed forever, eternally, going back in time, with no beginning and no end. So not being able to explain something goes both ways.

43

My Personal Atheist Manifesto?

by dubstepped in

so, i have a guy that is emailing me after listening to my podcast series "this jw life" about my life story before, during, and after being a jw.

this guy happens to be an elder and pioneer serving where the need is greater.

i love this guy.

dubstepped

So I wanted to come back here and post the reply that I got to the "manifesto" that I posted initially. Remember, this was in response to this elder/pioneer serving where the need is greater that listens to my podcasts and all kinds of apostate stuff. He knows all about the UN, Crisis of Conscience, etc. He is the most unique JW I've ever spoken to, and the fact that he sought me out and has been so nice without trying to be preachy is an anomaly. I could give some more personal details but I'd never want to out the guy or even risk it, and he's been through a lot in the organization that he is still an admitted apologist for. But his question to me was about why I don't believe in god anymore. I answered as in the first post here, and most of his response to that part in particular is below:

So, why am I a Jdub? Well my faith & belief, my mother is a reason, my family another,

Obviously you know the structure so, friends in the congregation as well.

What do I believe this to be? It’s my choice, I put faith in it because I choose to.

Mike we could go back and forth with arguments, objections, reasonings etc all day long and we both would be where we are.

Here is my truth, or my view on it.

First of all I choose to believe in something beyond me, a higher power, an intelligence.

It’s easier and for me & a smaller leap of faith to believe it’s all created rather then arising from nothing.

I choose to believe that the bible is a supernatural book, it can and does change lives.

I think from what I see and hear that we are in the last days, now who will God save?

Will we be in paradise treading on billions of dead bodies? I can’t imagine that, Jesus did say you will by no means complete the circuit of cities before He arrived.

So not everyone will know or hear about the message. Which means they’re in Gods hands. The Israelites left Egypt with some Egyptians, pagan people who at the last minute saw Jehovah was the true God.

For me this hasn’t been easy at times, that’s an understatement, but it’s given me a good life, I’ve stayed with my family, not left them as my father did, I have a happy marriage, I have a few true and genuine friends, about 5. Lots of other acquaintances.

I love people, I love helping people, it’s the way I’m wired, and if someone comes to me with a problem because they feel guilty and the need to self report, it actually happened just this week, I will always say either don’t worry I’ve done that too, or if I can’t say that I will try to understand them and reassure them of my love and sympathy.

I’ve never pulled rank or thrown my weight around as an “elder” it’s an ugly abuse of power.

I don’t feel guilty when I take a holiday or a day off or visit a cathedral, or watch things a lot wouldn’t, play tomb raider etc, plus communicating with you, I’ve got my own mind on things.

Listening to your stories makes me think the truth is a bit different in the states, stricter, more severe.

The way we’ve raised our family is the same as my mother raised me, plus i would add I don’t take myself at all seriously, we laugh at Steven letts rubber face & have fun pausing him & trying the same expressions, some things we hear and are taught we like & agree with, others we don’t & wait to see how things turn out. Many of us in my local Cong and family said right at the beginning that overlapping generations thing is going to have to change. I’m in no way a perfectionist and I don’t expect that of others.

I’m sure there are loads of disfellowshipped ones going to survive the end/be resurrected, I serve a loving God not a high performance demanding one.I honestly have watched a lot of the YouTube videos, John Cedars, “wake up testaments” etc. and I’m thinking hmmm they were all guilt tripped growing up, or felt that they were never good enough, that’s not been my experience, and I think maybe it’s more of an American thing than an English thing, I suppose were more cynical over here? If anyone I talk to ever expresses that to me I just reassure them what they’re already doing is enough, because it is. If they want to do more good for them, if not good for them, we can’t earn salvation through any amount of work.I’m happy where I am at the moment, I know about the UN scandal, and other things etc.

However I think being a Jdub has been good for me, most of the people I come across are genuine, yes there are some Judas like Jdubs, we protect ourselves by avoiding troubled ones, we’ve been in a few congregations and the basic group mentality is the same, some high performers, some slackers, some genuine, some troubled.

Anyway mate that’s me so far on this day of this crazy life.

What if we get to the end of it, die & there is nothing for eternity? What if what I’m doing is a load of rubbish? What if we evolved?

For me the good outweighs the bad, I see people change for the better in many ways,

Me too. It’s a good way of life for me, so for now I’m sticking with it.