Animal Farm
Nocturne
JoinedPosts by Nocturne
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29
Give the JW experience a BOOK title.
by qwerty inpinching following on fromprestons idea of the movie theme i'll start...................... pride and prejudice.
wuthering brooklyn heights.
the awakening.
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24
Do JWs believe all wordly people die at armageddon?
by XQsThaiPoes ini was wondering a few things.
i am trying to avoid the complexe question fallacy so excuse me if this is worded strangely instead of just saying "do jws believe all wordly people die at armageddon?"..
1) did the watchtower change its teaching on the great tribulation and armageddon enought for you to call it a major change?.
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Nocturne
I would just like to input my thoughts on the subject. The wtbts confuses this issue on purpose. They will say in their writings (or on their official website) that they don't believe only JWs will survive at armagueddon. They say that those who Jehovah deems to have a "good heart" will be spared. However, the impression you get from the stage (which is probably just as important as the writings) is that when armagueddon comes, you damn well better be a JWs if you want to live. Saying something like "only jehovah knows" doesn't fit the pattern of high control groups like the JWs.
But it's an interesting way for the society to maneuver things. By taking such actions, they somewhat avoid looking like fundementalist nuts saying that anyone can be saved at armagueddon if they have the right heart condition, but on the other side of things, during the talks they make sure that preaching is still important because those who have already heard about the jws will be destroyed at armagueddon.
So basically, it's not a major doctrinal change, just a slight adjustement in thinking. Instead of saying "everyone who is not JW before armagueddon will die", they say that "whoever has heard of the jws, or had a chance to be one but isn't is going to die". The second one isn't much of a relief since I've heard COs say that just because certain nationalities hadn't been officially preached to (ie because of governmental restrictions preventing the witnesses from going into a country) those people wouldn't be destroyed. He said that since people travel, or have relatives in countries where there are JWs could give them ample opportunity to learn about the JWs before the end comes.
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6
Jdubs and friendships...
by SwampThing ingood evening everyone,.
well, i?m back with another question, if you will be so kind as to indulge my curiosity.
since my last post, i have kept myself busy reading all of the interesting topics you guys discuss here.
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Nocturne
Hey SwampThing.
I can see why you would see this issue as a contradiction. To answer your first question, I believe you're absolutely right when you say that those within the organization that we once considered our friends were not really our friends, but merely acquaintances. At best, the relationship that existed was a conditional friendship, and it is dependent on both parties remaining JWs. But deep down, many of us know that if it wasn't for the organization and it's rules, maybe things could have been different.
The reason why this whole issue gets complicated is that for the most part, when we leave the organization, our friends do not stop loving us, rather their perception of what love is, and how to display this love is warpped by this organization. Really, when they shun us, they truly believe it is for our good, because this "tough love" will make us see our "wrongful ways" and make us come back to the organization. But alot of people stay in the org for family reasons, or friends, because eventhough alot of these are conditional relationships governed by the rules of the governing body, they have still invested alot in those relationships, and that is a very hard thing to let go.
Now for the second part of your question, you say that if anyone tried to tell your mother that she was not allowed to speak to her children, they would be better off starting world war 3. But I say, that's the amazing power of thought control that the wtbts uses, and it's a slow process that happens through time to get their members to conform. There are probably many parents who have said before becoming jws that they would never shun their kids for any reason, yet they did do it. I cannot see myself now shunning family members or friends for any reason, by I would have done it willingly while I was still a jws.
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5
Contact with My Family
by BhamDove inhello fellow ex-jws .
i need advice.i whish to see my family.
i'm an ex-jw, but not disfellowshiped.
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Nocturne
First off, welcome to JWD BhamDove.
I'm sorry to say this, but there is a rule that covers your situation. Basically, if elders became aware of your involvement with the Anglican Church they can disfellowship you (or is it dissociate you), i think it's dissociate you because according to the wts, by your actions you indicate that you no longer wish to be a jws.
But since you are not officially df'd or da'd, technically they shouldn't be shunning you, but jws tend to do whatever they want. If you want a relationship with them, it is really up to them in this case whether they want to or not. You'll be able to attend the funeral of your relatives, they can't force you out of the kh.
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Nocturne
Thanks blondie. That's great advice, next time they try to put me in a tight spot, I will turn it around on them.
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Nocturne
Quit making fun of my avatar .
It's supposed to be like that
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Nocturne
Ok, let's try this again (maybe I should have posted this in the humour section)
Here's the scene. These past couple of weeks free from dubdom have been great, so much more free time. But now I'm getting this strange feeling, despite the fact that I made it quite clear that I'm not going back to meetings, that my mom is in total denial over the whole thing. Let's go over some of the events of the past month.
I was talking to a family friend over the phone (a jw), the conversation was going relatively well until he asked me how were the meetings going. At that moment I froze (I wasn't sure what to say, I should have just said the truth), but somehow managed to avoid the question. Now my mom has had plenty of chance to talk with this family friend, and nowhere was it ever mentionned that I quit the jws. Then, I got a phone call from one of the brothers in my hall, and he asked how I was doing, and then at the end of the conversation, he said "I guess I'll see you Tuesday", then I said no. Then he said, "oh, i guess in that case I'll see you next Sunday". I replied saying "That's not going to happen", and he sounded totally surprised of my answer. Then I got an email from a couple of "friends" asking me if I wanted to visit Bethel with them. Hello?!?! If I don't want anything to do with meetings or service, why the hell would I want to visit Bethel?
Finally, today, I get a call from my mom saying that she ran into a couple of jws that I went to high school with (they're not in my congregation), so they haven't heard about the fact that I don't go to meetings anymore. My mom tells me that they asked that I should give them a call to go out and do something with them, and she said she thought it would be a really good idea. Well, for starters, my mom didn't happen to mention to them that I decided to quit the JWs, because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have offered if they had known. Secondly, she thinks it would be a good idea for me to hang out with them, despite the fact that I made it quite clear I wasn't going back to meetings, and to try and stop me from quitting she said that I would be losing all my jw friends, but now she still hopes that I can hang out with them by pretending to be a jw. This is so frustrating having to deal with these JWs.
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11
Ruining your life for the watchtower
by jwbot inhttp://www.livejournal.com/community/jw_community/93269.html
"i have decided to quit college after this quarter and begin pioneering.".
i want to be a good witness, and a good person.
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Nocturne
That's a shame.
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20
Observations at a District Convention
by truman in.
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i finally got my piece to post about three entries down.
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Nocturne
I also noticed several times that the phrase ?raised around the truth? was used instead of ?raised in the truth?. Is this one of their progressive language adjustments, like calling themselves ?Christian Congregation of Jehovah?s Witnesses? instead of ?Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? in official correspondence?
They reference themselves now in letters as the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses for legal purposes. In 2000 I believe, when the GB 'officially' stepped down from control of the wtbts, another corporation called the Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses Inc. was formed to oversee the congregations, elders, DOs, COs etc... So basically they seperated the book publishing corporation from the JWs in the US, mostly for legal purposes. However this is only in the US if I'm not mistaken. Like for example, in Canada, it is still the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of Canada Inc. that controls the congregations and all of the other stuff.
As for the language change I don't see much to it. It might be that the speaker just made a mistake in his choice of words. I wouldn't read much into it since the expectations from the kids raised as jws are still the same. "Proper Youth" raised in the "truth" are still supposed to get baptized in their early teens, if not sooner, and are expected to pioneer right out of high school, or as soon as they're done a very quick post secondary course to help them make a living.