Do JWs believe all wordly people die at armageddon?

by XQsThaiPoes 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  XQsThaiPoes

  I was wondering a few things. I am trying to avoid the complexe question fallacy so excuse me if this is worded strangely instead of just saying "Do JWs believe all wordly people die at armageddon?".

  1) Did the watchtower change its teaching on the great tribulation and armageddon enought for you to call it a major change?

  2) What version of the teaching were you taught?

  3) Do all JWs need to believe that in armageddon normal wordly people will all be killed or is it good enough to have only the cartoonishly evil demonic hoard wordly people die?

  4) If a person has non JW family and friends why would they insist on believing that all wordly people will die when their end game doctrine is not that stable considering all the revisions, rearranging, and toning down?
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  Mysterious

  1) Did the watchtower change its teaching on the great tribulation and armageddon enought for you to call it a major change?

  Well I'm not the one to talk to about doctrinal change. I'm sure blondie will be along with some research shortly.

  2) What version of the teaching were you taught?

  That those who hadnt had a chance to hear the message or who hadnt had the time to respond would be spared and given a chance in the "new world". Likewise those with a "good heart" who perhaps had not had enough time to make positive changes in their lives.

  3) Do all JWs need to believe that in armageddon normal wordly people will all be killed or is it good enough to have only the cartoonishly evil demonic hoard wordly people die?

  The organization has always been about demonizing worldly people, cartoonish or otherwise. They're lack of love for true worship, god's organization etc. blah blah. You would think their entire lives were full of debauchery instead of normal everyday events if you listened to the way the organization paints it. And of course any disenting views are highly frowned on.

  4) If a person has non JW family and friends why would they insist on believing that all wordly people will die when their end game doctrine is not that stable considering all the revisions, rearranging, and toning down?

  Because they do not think for themselves. If the organization tells them their family is going do die they will just work harder to make new converts. Most of the loyal dubbies dont realize that there is any doctrinal revision happening. The wash of "new light" has bleached out all their understanding of how they used to view things before.
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  garybuss

  During my last time of regular association (pre 1975) the Witness hype here was that not only were all non-Jehovah's Witnesses going to be murdered by Jehovah and Jesus (aka Michael), but any slack Witnesses doing less that 10 hours a month in unpaid door to door religious literature distribution, were going to be murdered as well.
  
  That was in the same era when me and my 3 year old son were belly pushed away from a vending machine at the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation sponsored district assembly. It was really a happy time. I have the fondest memories of it all.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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  Room 215

  The ``company line" re the fate of ``worldlings" at Armageddon is pretty much as Garybuss describes it here; in the JW worldview, ``worldy" is ``worldy," no matter whether it's Mother Teresa, Albert Schweitzer or Uncle Joe Stalin and Saddam Hussein, etc; ie. DEATH----down to the last infant.

  Yet, if most of these ``worldlings" are lucky (oh, excuse me; I meant ``fortunate") enough to die before the Big A, then they're more than likely to be resurrected in the ``general resurrection." And all this makes perfect sense to the average dub... go figure.
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  myauntfanny

  XQ, I'm glad you started this thread, because I'm really curious. But, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression you are a practicing, attending, believing JW. Is it really so vague that even insiders don't know anymore?

  I can tell you that when I was a kid it was a dead certain fact and was all going to happen in 1978 (that was in my congregation, I've noticed that others had 1976 as a date). When I asked on Beliefnet, which has a lot of JWs and their defenders, I never got a definitive yes or no answer. There was a lot of "Jehovah is the only one who can judge what's in a person's heart." But these same people would talk about their grief at the thought of losing unbelieving children in Armageddon. So it was clear that whatever the story is for outside consumption, they thought their own loved ones didn't have a chance.

  I know there's a distinction made between those who have never heard of JWs and those who have had the chance to reject it. I know that anyone who has been a JW and left is for sure going to be toast when Armageddon comes. But those in between, who have the opportunity to join and refuse it? What's the line on them? I know that my JW family still talks to me because I was never baptised. But I was raised in the religion so I had my fair shot at hearing god's final word on the matter. I've never broached the matter with them, and I do wonder if they think any day now god's going to be chasing me down the street with all the other poor sinners. I assume they do.
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  DireStraitJacket

  My mother is always telling me that anyone who has come into contact with the truth, ie has studied, or attended meetings or was baptised, but now live a "wordly lifestyle" or no longer believes, will be killed at armagedon. People who have never come into contact will be spared. Basically anyone who has ever been preached to and has not converted is going to die.
  My mother tells me with tears in her eyes that it is so sad that I'm choosing to die at armagedon...
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  Room 215

  The flaw in your dear mom's argument, Dire, is that JWs would save more lives by NOT preaching to anyone, since these latter can then truthfully claim to never have been given the chance to ``learn the truth."
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  Nocturne

  I would just like to input my thoughts on the subject. The wtbts confuses this issue on purpose. They will say in their writings (or on their official website) that they don't believe only JWs will survive at armagueddon. They say that those who Jehovah deems to have a "good heart" will be spared. However, the impression you get from the stage (which is probably just as important as the writings) is that when armagueddon comes, you damn well better be a JWs if you want to live. Saying something like "only jehovah knows" doesn't fit the pattern of high control groups like the JWs.

  But it's an interesting way for the society to maneuver things. By taking such actions, they somewhat avoid looking like fundementalist nuts saying that anyone can be saved at armagueddon if they have the right heart condition, but on the other side of things, during the talks they make sure that preaching is still important because those who have already heard about the jws will be destroyed at armagueddon.

  So basically, it's not a major doctrinal change, just a slight adjustement in thinking. Instead of saying "everyone who is not JW before armagueddon will die", they say that "whoever has heard of the jws, or had a chance to be one but isn't is going to die". The second one isn't much of a relief since I've heard COs say that just because certain nationalities hadn't been officially preached to (ie because of governmental restrictions preventing the witnesses from going into a country) those people wouldn't be destroyed. He said that since people travel, or have relatives in countries where there are JWs could give them ample opportunity to learn about the JWs before the end comes.
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  NeonMadman

  They will say in their writings (or on their official website) that they don't believe only JWs will survive at armagueddon. They say that those who Jehovah deems to have a "good heart" will be spared.

  Right, they try to make it sound as if at least some non-JW's will be spared when Armageddon comes. But if you examine those statements closely, what you will find that they really mean is that some people with good hearts who are not now Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved when Armageddon comes. The reason they will be saved, of course, is that their "good hearts" will motivate them to respond to the Kingdom message, and they will become JW's before Armageddon comes. If a JW throws this type of reasoning at you, I'd suggest holding his feet to the fire and asking specifically, "are you saying that some people who are still not JW's when Armageddon comes will survive?" If he still says yes to that, then he is not in line with many clear statements by the Society indicating that one must be serving Jehovah in association with his organization in order to be spared.
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  blondie

  w99 12/1 pp. 18-19 Be Happy Readers of the Book of Revelation ***

  The message is clear: If we want to survive Armageddon, we must remain spiritually alert and keep the symbolic garments that identify us as faithful Witnesses of Jehovah God. Happy we will be if we avoid spiritual lethargy and continue without letup, sharing zealously in spreading the "everlasting good news" of God?s established Kingdom.?Revelation 14:6.