Jdubs and friendships...

by SwampThing 6 Replies latest jw friends

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  SwampThing

  Good evening everyone,

  Well, I?m back with another question, if you will be so kind as to indulge my curiosity. Since my last post, I have kept myself busy reading all of the interesting topics you guys discuss here. JWism is certainly a world unto itself...

  OK, I am interested in your thoughts on what strikes me as a contradiction in opinions regarding Jdubs and friendships. Please take no offense at my question as none is intended.

  In some posts on this board I have read where many of you believe that friendships within The Society are about as shallow as a Sahara mud puddle. This, based on what I understand about shunning the DF?ed and DA?ed, gossip in the congregation and so forth. In other words, there can be long friendships established, yet if someone is being shunned, the friendship seems to be tossed out like yesterday?s newspaper. On the other hand, many of you have stayed in The Society in order to not lose the friends you have known for so many years.

  My question is this; why would you be concerned with losing a friend who would drop you like a hot potato, ignoring your long history with them if you were to be DF?ed? That, to me, doesn?t seem like much of a friend to begin with. An acquaintance, maybe. But not a friend. Friends, in my book, are people who will support you when the chips are down, and who will come to your aid without question or condition.

  There is a second part to this question, that regarding the loss of family members due to shunning, but I will not ask you to comment on that situation. I?ve learned not to put people on the spot when it comes to their family dynamics. We only have the family we have been given, and cannot go out and choose a new mom or dad if the originals decide to ignore us. However, I will say that I cannot imagine anyone telling my mom that she was not allowed to speak with her children. They would fair better starting World War III.

  Thank you again for all of the insights you have shared with me. The information I have learned on this forum is priceless.

  Most respectfully,

  Swamp Thing
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  Odrade

  That is a question that all of us fight with. Were we this type of shallow friends when we were in? Perhaps. Does that mean that's all we are capable of? Definitely not.

  I think the real question is not why we try to save these friendships that are so shallow they will drop us instantly if we are disfellowshiped. The real question is: at what point do we accept the fact that at this point in time, they cannot get past their programming to value true friendship.

  Ask my best friend (if she ever came on the board, LOL,) She quit and was df'd about 11 years ago. All of us, her very good friends, were more afraid of displeasing Jehovah (read: the WTS) by associating with her, than we were determined to be real friends. Fortunately, there is a happy ending, but that followed upon my realizing that the WTS could not dictate the course of true friendship.

  Also, I think there is no real opportunity to CHOOSE to develop true friendships within the Org. Assuming two people are active JWs, they need do nothing in order to maintain friendship, other than show up at the KH for meetings and service. The association is built in. "Friendship" develops because it is handed to you. If by some chance there is real friendship, there is no test to that association--as long as both parties stay in the organization. If one party leaves, continued association with the Org is far more important than maintaining the ties made with REAL PEOPLE. Add to that the fact that most JWs never learn to pick up the phone and make a lunch date for no reason (because they never have to), and you have people who have no clue how to maintain contact outside the context of Theocratic Activity.

  It's very complicated, and without critical thinking, most cannot see past the guidelines to decide to keep up with friends on their own, in spite of activity level (or lack of.) It is much easier to go with the current than to buck the system and work hard at keeping these friends who have left. On some level, I think many of us strive to maintain contact (by fading) out of some hope that our friends within will wake up and develop their capacity for true friendship. Maybe it's an illusion.

  O
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  dorothy

  For the same reason I kept my crappy car until I crashed it... it still served some purpose.
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  Nocturne

  Hey SwampThing.

  I can see why you would see this issue as a contradiction. To answer your first question, I believe you're absolutely right when you say that those within the organization that we once considered our friends were not really our friends, but merely acquaintances. At best, the relationship that existed was a conditional friendship, and it is dependent on both parties remaining JWs. But deep down, many of us know that if it wasn't for the organization and it's rules, maybe things could have been different.

  The reason why this whole issue gets complicated is that for the most part, when we leave the organization, our friends do not stop loving us, rather their perception of what love is, and how to display this love is warpped by this organization. Really, when they shun us, they truly believe it is for our good, because this "tough love" will make us see our "wrongful ways" and make us come back to the organization. But alot of people stay in the org for family reasons, or friends, because eventhough alot of these are conditional relationships governed by the rules of the governing body, they have still invested alot in those relationships, and that is a very hard thing to let go.

  Now for the second part of your question, you say that if anyone tried to tell your mother that she was not allowed to speak to her children, they would be better off starting world war 3. But I say, that's the amazing power of thought control that the wtbts uses, and it's a slow process that happens through time to get their members to conform. There are probably many parents who have said before becoming jws that they would never shun their kids for any reason, yet they did do it. I cannot see myself now shunning family members or friends for any reason, by I would have done it willingly while I was still a jws.
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  GentlyFeral

  If I still had friendships with active jaydubs, -- Well, I'd remember what it was like from their viewpoint.

  When I was an active dub, I shunned for two reasons:

  Because (in only one case) I knew the situation and was sufficiently disgusted to think the DF'd person deserved it.

  And because I wanted to Obey Jehovah (tm). I really thought this was what God wanted me to do, and for good reasons. This meant shunning someone I loved and respected. It hurt like hell, and I regret every minute of it. But I did it just the same.

  GentlyFeral
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  dh

  i kept no jw friends when i left. i keep in contact with one jw who is the older brother of a girl friend, but at best that is twice a year by email.
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  Mysterious

  why would you be concerned with losing a friend who would drop you like a hot potato, ignoring your long history with them if you were to be DF?ed? That, to me, doesn?t seem like much of a friend to begin with. An acquaintance, maybe. But not a friend. Friends, in my book, are people who will support you when the chips are down, and who will come to your aid without question or condition.

  Yes but a lot of JWs dont have true friends like that and are afraid to lose what little friendships they do have when exiting the organization.