Posts by amac

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

amac

Couldn't find this thread under Active Forums for some reason...so bttt to test

9

WT/U.S. Navy commercial deal?

by Gerard in

jw
friends

i found in a web page http://www.geocities.com/athens/ithaca/5974/ a press release in spanish dated december 6th reporting that regi u.s., inc has signed a contract to build special engines for the u.s. navys war machine.. now, go to http://www.tenkwizard.com and type watchtower in the word search line, press enter.

under the more info column find and click on files:.

it seems like the watchtower society and someone by the name of james mccann own (50% and 34% respectively) regi u.s., inc. could someone please follow up and confirm this?.

amac

Why isn't this in the news?!?

Because it is old news. Check the date on your news link. It should be back from early last year. This topic has been discussed to death on this board already, you may want to do a search to find the older, very long threads.

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

amac

How can you base your entire argument on the premise that something cannot be done if it MIGHT result in human life?
I mean, does that mean male masturbation is wrong? Since sperm could, in the right circumstances, become a human?

I don't base my argument on something that might happen. I base my argument on when LIFE starts, not when consciousness starts. I believe once LIFE starts to grow, we should accept the responsibility of starting that process. We shouldn't mask the abortion of life as the abortion of some unliving blob of cells.

No, that does not make masturbation wrong because jerking off in the shower does not result in a unique DNA and human life. However, if for whatever reason masturbation does result in pregnancy, I believe the couple that allowed that to happen would be responsible for the LIFE that was developing.

That something could or could not eventually become a human is irrelevant.

That's funny, I see it as completely relevant. I always have had the tendency to value human life more than animal life. But that's just my personal opinion.

What matters in order for this to be a homicide is: is it a human NOW? And, it's not. At least until week 30 or so when we start seeing brainwaves you might deduce are human.

What else might you be expecting to come out of that belly? A dog? I think we can assume that most fetus are human fetus that are growing.

What DOES make a human is the 'soul,' or self-awareness (or ki or whatever else you want to call it).

How do you know that the Soul comes into existence in 30 weeks...for all we know about consciousness, it may not appear until well after child birth. In which case, infanticide would be justified.

If a baby has a specific birth defect (Anencephaly) and is born with no brain, is it 'human'? (Not literally no brain - just no cerebral cortex). It has all the genetic code of a 'human'. Might even be technically alive. You could certainly put it on life support and extend it's life quite some time. Human?
By your definition of 'human' - you have to answer 'yes' and try to make it live. Doing otherwise is immoral, no?

You are missing the biggest part of this scenario. Whoever has the burden of this decision is no doubt going to be asking themselves one MAJOR question. Does this Human Life have the possibility of ever developing into a full conscious human? If so, they will no doubt feel obliged to sustain it's life. If there is no chance, than they would have to make that decision, but personally, I would not feel morally obliged to prolong it's life. That would be the difference between your scenario and an aborted child.

24

The plight of the black man

by RR in

firpo carr's latest book is: "jehovah's witnesses:.

the african-american enigma- a contemporary study", .

los angeles- while they are probably best known for their door-to-door.

amac

RR - thanks for the post and being fair on the subject. I haven't seen this book yet, but I'll have to hunt it down as I'm curious what the point of the book is. That the WT is down with the Nation of Islam???

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

amac

Because the arguments you are presenting are just as easy to apply to any animal (not just humans). What DOES MAKE us different is our soul - our being self-aware.

I agree that what sets us apart from animals is being self-aware or conscious. But I do not equate conscious with a soul, however, I can see why someone would make that connection.

However, this is all besides my point. My point being that everyone acknowledges that a fetus is most likely going to be born into a human being that is conscious (or self-aware, or that has a soul.) To start the production of a life and then abort it out of inconvenience is morally wrong in my eyes. If other people have a different moral view on it, that is fine, but they shouldn't hide behind the old "it's not even a real human yet, it's just a blob" line. It doesn't matter how you look at it, it is LIFE that is being aborted. It can't survive on it's own, just like an infant can not, but it is LIFE nevertheless. Everything about the child is already in place, it is on its way to growing into a full fledged human. Aborting an unborn is still stoping a life that was trying to develop into a human "with a soul." Anyone who justifies differently is only rationalizing their decision.

And to throw a rebuttal to your 30 week theory, I do not believe consciousness is fully understood by the scientific community. It is possible that full consciousness is not achieved until well after the birth of the child. So being self-aware or fully conscious can not be used as a measuring stick of when someone earns their right to live.

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

amac

Hey, how about that. 80% of fertilized eggs (that meet your definition of 'alive' and 'human') die within the first six weeks of pregnancy.

Is that supposed to justify aborting some of the 20% that survive? Why hell, since we all die eventually, murder should be OK then too.

I don't care when the brain waves start, or how you came to the conclusion that it is also the same time they get their "soul." A fetus is part of the reproductive cycle. It is life. It is the result of an act for reproduction (sex.) If it has reached the fetus level, then chances are this life will grow into a full grown human being. To abort this process simply for the sake of convenience, or because you just wanted to have sex, shows a complete disregard for the sanctity of life.

Using scientific arguments to justify the level of "living" in a fetus and whether or not it is "OK" to abort is ridiculous. The same argument can be extended to any age at which point it is obvious how ridiculous it is. Anyone who is balls enough to have an abortion should also have the gonads to acknowledge that it is ending life. And not hide behind an argument of it being a clump of cells with no brain waves.

13

Should I sue the Elders/WT Society (! or ?)

by morrisamb in

each victim of sexual abuse must make a lot of individual choices in their life.

to remain silent or to disclose.

to pursue charges or not.

amac

Very good post. I agree with your reasoning.

68

Sheila Bowen's Letter To the GB!

by Ranchette in

jw
friends

i knocked on the locked door of the appeal hearing last night after they had dismissed bill and told the six elders that i had something to say to them and told them it was summed up it a letter i had written.i then asked them if i could read it to them and they could have their own copy when i was finished.they said that would be fine.. here it is.

governing body,.

25 columbia heights.

amac

Did they say anything of interest after you read the letter?

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

amac

Naeblis -

Whether or not it is a living human is completely beside the point (and completely arguable.) Unless you have had children or aborted a child it is difficult to understand. But there are natural bonds formed immediately with a forming child.

I really don't see Quincy's predicament and the advice given as pissing in the wind.

123

Pro-Life or Pro-Choice--HELP

by Quincy in

ok...3 days ago, i found out that i was going to be a father!!

good new right?

well then she says that she is considering having an abortion...which i am totally against....so we discussed it...then she started to think that she might have the child....so she talked it over with her twin sister...and she told her to get the abortion...now she says she wants the abortion...now i am upset...not onlly does she want the abortion...but she wants me to pay for the entire thing...so not only am i going to be terminating a developing life...but i have to pay for it????

amac

How much value to you attach to a specific group of cells

That's his personal perspective. He obviously attaches a lot of value to it. Are you telling him that he needs to reevaluate the value he places on his child/embryo/sperm/cells/whateveryouwanttocallthepartofyourbodythatmeetswiththepartofanotherbodyandstartsmakinganotherhumaninyourfashion?

If so, unless you can speak from experience and the emotions you had to deal with from whichever decision you made, then you have no authority to question that value. That's my take.