some of us were discussing the other day the 'advantages' and 'disadvantages' of disassociating from the witnesses as against being disfellowshipped (for apostasy).. it seems from reading various experiences that most departing borgites choose to send in a letter of disassociation.
for them it saves the 'hassle' of being harrassed by the modern-day philistines, the elder class.
it also saves, to some extent, the reputation of the exdub.
Howdy thinker:
Not much you can do about that kind of shunning. There's nothing in WTS literature about it, so the Dubs are doing it on their own. Legally you can't force them to not shun you, and you can't hold the WTS liable for something that it has no specific policy on.
AlanF
*** g94 11/8 20 have i committed the unforgivable sin?
masturbation is an unclean habit.
(2 corinthians 7:1) however, the bible does not class it with serious sins such as fornication.
Kruschev? Would that be Don Amy? A bigger moron of a CO I've never seen.
AlanF
i have been reading a book called the jesus mysteries and it puts forward an idea that jesus never existed but was born out of the ideas of gnostism.
there are many similarities between ancient religions and christianity, which is very worrying for me.
i have not had a lot of time of late to read up on it properly but here are the conclusions that i have come to so far.. did christ exist?
It's not clear to me that you have to go the all-or-nothing route, Uncle. There are plenty of things in the world that I don't understand and probably never will. Some things you accept because of your mind, some because of your gut. Only you can work it out. The trick is to avoid confusing your mind with your gut, because one is a much better guide to life's decisions than the other.
AlanF
*** g94 11/8 20 have i committed the unforgivable sin?
masturbation is an unclean habit.
(2 corinthians 7:1) however, the bible does not class it with serious sins such as fornication.
Lisa, I don't know your history with respect to JWs, but back in the late 1960s to early 1970s there were articles on top of articles and public talks on top of talks condemning the evils of masturbation. It was a personal hangup of Nathan Knorr, apparently, and they beat it to death (no comments from kibitzers, please).
Being a nubile young man of 18 in 1969, and basically a braindead JW, I took all this to heart and had a number of sessions with elders about my "problem". By about 1972 the Society was really hammering the issue. One elder told me that he was pretty sure that the Society would make masturbation a disfellowshipping offense, and that he was happy to hear it. By about that time I began to realize that these people were out of their minds and so I didn't go to them any more, but the guilt continued.
Since then the Society has avoided the constant repetition of condemnatory articles, but it still condemns masturbation as being "grossly unclean" and a giving in to fleshly desires. That continued policy is what creates the guilt that led to the article you asked about.
AlanF
i have been reading a book called the jesus mysteries and it puts forward an idea that jesus never existed but was born out of the ideas of gnostism.
there are many similarities between ancient religions and christianity, which is very worrying for me.
i have not had a lot of time of late to read up on it properly but here are the conclusions that i have come to so far.. did christ exist?
Hello Uncle Onion,
Thought I'd add my two cents here.
The case of "well we don't have all the answers" only cuts it so far.
Suppose you grew up a member of the Flat Earth Society and you campaigned half your life in favor of flat-earthism. All those NASA photos of people on the moon and orbiting the earth? Hollywood fiction, nothing more. Flash forward to 2030 when sub-orbital flight around the world is common. You decide for the first time to fly, and you get on one of these space planes and you get way up there and you see out the window with your own eyes that the earth is round. What do you do? Put your visions in the back of your mind until God reveals to you that you saw right? Or believe your eyes and act like an intelligent man?
Same thing with Noah's Flood and all that. You can do like You Know and other Fundies, and ignore the evidence that you can go out and pick up in your own hands. You can pretend that you never saw what you saw. Or you can make the obvious conclusions and act on them.
Your choice.
AlanF
some of us were discussing the other day the 'advantages' and 'disadvantages' of disassociating from the witnesses as against being disfellowshipped (for apostasy).. it seems from reading various experiences that most departing borgites choose to send in a letter of disassociation.
for them it saves the 'hassle' of being harrassed by the modern-day philistines, the elder class.
it also saves, to some extent, the reputation of the exdub.
Hey, I do a lot of things to "influence" them. You have no idea. And you can probably figure out how much I enjoy it.
AlanF
some of us were discussing the other day the 'advantages' and 'disadvantages' of disassociating from the witnesses as against being disfellowshipped (for apostasy).. it seems from reading various experiences that most departing borgites choose to send in a letter of disassociation.
for them it saves the 'hassle' of being harrassed by the modern-day philistines, the elder class.
it also saves, to some extent, the reputation of the exdub.
YahKnaow:
I don't force it because the whole point is that they have to initiate it. That way, I'm just going about my daily business and am unfairly attacked, etc etc etc.
AlanF
the arrogance is tolerable.
there is never a good time to call someone a name.sorry, ginny, just calling it like i .
see it, and enough people agreed with me to let me know that i wasn't.
Hey Uncle, the purpose of describing the Contingents was not to place people there, but to get people to recognize for themselves that they might be in those boxes, and motivate them to get out. No one puts anyone in a box -- they put themselves there.
AlanF
"read your bible".. this phrase has been used by the watchtower society for years.. however, it is being widely used in recent years for particular.
reasons.
circuit overseers and governing body members have been.
Nice post, Metatron!
AlanF
some of us were discussing the other day the 'advantages' and 'disadvantages' of disassociating from the witnesses as against being disfellowshipped (for apostasy).. it seems from reading various experiences that most departing borgites choose to send in a letter of disassociation.
for them it saves the 'hassle' of being harrassed by the modern-day philistines, the elder class.
it also saves, to some extent, the reputation of the exdub.
For some people the finality of formal DF'ing or DA'ing provides the closure they need. Others are not given a choice. For me, the most satisfying, and certainly the most desirable course in terms of family relations, was to avoid formal shunning at all costs.
For me it amounted to not playing their game. In the Flock book the Society specifically states that if a person meets with a judicial committee, they view it as acknowledging the Society's authority. By refusing to meet with them, I avoided that trap.
One day, not long after I told my daughter (who by that time was in the custody of her JW mother) that I was going to remarry, a couple of elders called up. Of course, they gave the impression that it was only one. I told him that it was none of his business what I did, since I was not a member of his congregation and never had been (that's true because I was inactive for more than a year by the time I moved into that congregation's territory and I never asked for my old publishers record card to be transferred), and so I wouldn't discuss anything with him. Later I thought that it might be wise to give an explanation to the ONE elder alone, and one way or another make sure that they didn't try to DF or DA me in absentia. So late the next evening I called the elder and asked him if he wanted to discuss why I had long since quit the JWs. He wasn't willing, so I launched into offensive mode. I told him that under no circumstances was he or any other elder to make any announcements , official or unofficial, public or private, about my status or lack thereof as a JW. In fact he was not to discuss my situation with anyone at all. I said that if he violated that demand, I would consider it libelous and slanderous, and that I would take all necessary steps to ensure that my good name in the community was not besmirched. I told him that I was not interested in communicating with anyone in his congregation, and that if the elders leave me alone I will leave them alone. I asked him if he understood what I was really telling him. He said he did, and that they would leave me alone. I haven't heard a word from them since (this happened in 1995) and I don't expect to. He seems to have kept his word, since I've had friendly words with a few old acquaintances from that congregation since. I'm sure that this situation irritates certain Watchtower officials no end, but they know better than to try to DF or DA me now, because if they do, they'll find their asses in court in a major test case so fast they won't know what hit them. And they know it. I would very much welcome such a test case because it would force a number of top Watchtower officials to testify in ways they know would be devastating to the Society.
AlanF
