Posts by OrphanCrow

162

Lorenz Reibling gives interview about real estate

by OrphanCrow in

this interview was posted april 16, 2015 on youtube.

lorenz reibling's replies to the reporter in argentina are in english.. lorenz reibling is intimately connected to the watchtower society and, according to some sources, is a jw himself.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3ssa-9yvii.

so who is lorenz reibling?

OrphanCrow

cultbgone: I knew they were rotten at the core but never realized how gangrenous the jwborg is at heart. Just an amazing job of research, OrphanCrow. I'm going to have to revisit this post several times to stomach it all.
I really, really think you need to find someone to publish this in the Real World (if there is such a thing).

Thank you for your support, cultbgone. I am pleased that other people can benefit from this research. I didn't really mean to start it...it was an accident that developed into a side hobby. Lol! I am not ready to publish yet. I am not finished my research - many loose ends to tie up still. But...maybe, someday. I have so much material that it is hard to juggle it all and I think I might need a partner or team to help me finish it! Posting the research here helps - I find the feedback to be beneficial and other posters often drop little gems that links the material together. So, thank you to all the posters who have contributed!

The other problem I encounter is that the material is disturbing and difficult to process - staying detached is especially hard when it deals with the lives lost and damaged by the WTS' blood ban - a doctrine made up and manipulated for the profit of those who don't care that they are exploiting people.

Bill: OrphanCrow I am very impressed with your work. If you can connect Lorenz Reibling as being the front man for the WBTS real estate investments that are being funded by the liquidation of Brooklyn bulidings that would be a real story.

Thanks, Bill. The real estate part of my research is an area that I don't feel qualified to tackle and I think it would be best if someone with better resources and knowledge about real estate could undertake an in depth examination of the real estate transactions and further developments of the properties involved. Somebody, somewhere, knows far more about real estate than I do - I find that my interest lies more in examining the bloodless industry rather than things like real estate sales, investments and property development companies.

The WTS has been very active in their real estate transactions and I believe it is a mistake to stop at just saying "Hey! The WTS has sold some property and now has money in their coffers!" The picture is far bigger than that. What needs to be examined is who bought the property and what happens to it after the WTS has sold the property. And, as well, how those property sales affect the real estate market around it. Reibling speaks of this in his one video - how to increase activity in the market by increasing the sense of risk and urgency in a locale that they want to do business in.

I only starting looking at Reibling because of his connection to the medical supply and pharma companies he worked for in his early years before he became a real estate guru. At the time I first encountered him, it was just a tiny little connection between him and the Haemonetics company that piqued my curiosity. As it turned out, that line of inquiry into Reibling turned up a whole lot of things that I didn't expect and it certainly has turned into an interesting diversion.

Bill: Ron Lapin came to Redding Ca. in the late 1970's selling his services. One of the sisters got suspicious and contacted the state of Calif. Consumer Affairs of which they sent her a list of [I think] around 200 complaints. Another brother up from So Cal said Lapin removed his sisters uterus with out her knowledge and that he did it to other women in So. Cal.

Thank you so much for that comment - it fits in perfectly with what I have to say about Ron Lapin, the bloodless butcher. Ron Lapin is an important figure in the development of the bloodless industry and I have quite a bit to say in response to your comment, so...I will take a break here to prepare my reply - the Lapin story is one that takes a bit of telling to do it justice. It is a very critical component to understanding how and why the bloodless industry became what it is today. Ron Lapin is the link between early medical research involving JWs and the emergence of the HLC out of its shadow beginnings in Canada into a public face in the JW culture.

49

What are the costs of literature cart witnessing?

by oppostate in

in the article on the guardian ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/14/jehovahs-witnesses-evangelism-church-god-armageddon ) mentioned in another thread, there's this quote of mark omalley, who is assigned to the public information desk at the jehovahs witness uk centre in north london.

we now have more than 165,000 [literature] carts on the streets in over 50 countries.

it gives us visibility and availability.

OrphanCrow

joe134cd - "I don't believe WT would be out sourcing someone to make these signs.."

You can order cart signs through this website:

http://www.literaturecart.com/

About Us
We are a small graphics company in Jacksonville, Florida. We've been making public witnessing displays for our local congregations for almost 2 years now. As the demand for more displays increased, we saw the need to simplify the process. In doing so, we were able to lower cost and streamline production. The next hurdle was processing and organizing orders, thus LiteratureCart.com was born.

Or from this website:

http://www.jwcartposters.com/

Dear Friends,
JW CART POSTERS, and its parent company Sign Center, is an independently run and operated business and is in no way endorsed or financed by The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society. We are family-run and all employees are one of Jehovah's Witnesses. We discovered that there was a need for someone to create the public witnessing poster boards for the ministry. We are happy to be in a position to offer a finished product to congregations who are wanting to take part in this historic preaching work in these last days. If there are any questions or concerns please feel free to contact us.
Sincerely,
Your Brothers and Sisters from JW Cart Posters

Or from here:

http://www.wcanfield.co.uk/prices-and-ordering/featured-posters/

LitCart Posters is run By William Canfield as a sole trader. I started this business because I found there was a real need for someone to print the art work for the public witnessing carts at an affordable price and reasonable quality.
I am happy to be in a position to offer this service to any congregation wishing to have a share in this part of our ministry.

etc......

*oops...I see that Startingover posted jwcartposters while I was typing..

49

What are the costs of literature cart witnessing?

by oppostate in

in the article on the guardian ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/14/jehovahs-witnesses-evangelism-church-god-armageddon ) mentioned in another thread, there's this quote of mark omalley, who is assigned to the public information desk at the jehovahs witness uk centre in north london.

we now have more than 165,000 [literature] carts on the streets in over 50 countries.

it gives us visibility and availability.

OrphanCrow

TheSearcher: The carts are in all probability made by an Org-sanctioned, Witness owned company, who will show their "appreciation" to the Org for putting business their way.

And that is the 64 dollar question:

Who is making the carts? Which JW company is it that is supplying the carts and making money from it?

Nice gig if you can get it - guaranteed sales, just have the WTS tell the congregation that "Jehovah" has told them to buy his chariots. After all, the WTS doesn't even have to sell them for a profit - that little item is taken care of when the Society men visit the manufacturing plant and shake hands with the JW who owns it.

32

Who Owns the Copyright to Crisis of Conscience?

by Hold Me-Thrill Me in

jw
friends

recently there was a thread where someone asked if there was a copy of crisis of conscience they could purchase.

raymond franz it seems had limited resources yet he was able to provide crisis of conscience in printed form to what?

thousands?

OrphanCrow

HoldMeThrillMe: If you have a link to what you would consider a "safe" download site for his books please, if you do not mind doing so, post it if possible on this thread.

Crisis of Conscience (4th edition):

http://khazarzar.skeptik.net/books/franz01.pdf

16

A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany

by Saintbertholdt in

what percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.

what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?

(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).

OrphanCrow

Sorry about that table I posted - it doesn't want to hold the formatting...let me try this again:

Nope, didn't work...

Okay - link to New World Society by Marley Cole - the tables are in the appendix.

https://archive.org/details/JehovahsWitnessesTheNewWorldSocietyByMarleyCole

16

A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany

by Saintbertholdt in

what percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.

what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?

(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).

OrphanCrow

Nah, you are not being too tiring. I have spent much time trying to reconcile the discrepancies in numbers and stories that have emerged out of the WT history and the period leading up to and including WW2 is especially significant in WT history.

You had said:

You can refer to Detlef Garbe Between Resistance and Martyrdom: Jehovah's Witnesses in the Third Reich – Page 47. Jehovah's Witnesses already numbered 20 000 in 1922.

I find that number to be a remarkable growth if it is compared to the numbers given to Cole by Knorr. According to Cole/Knorr, there were zero Jehovah's Witnesses in West Germany in 1918, only 4 years before Garbe's numbers reported for 1922. Six years later, in 1928, Cole/Knorr reported that the entire global membership of JWs numbered only 1,988 more (23,988) than the figures Garbe gives for German JWs alone in 1922. In six years the JWs only grew by 1,988 members worldwide? (that is, if you say that there were only the 22,000 German JWs...where are the rest?) Something doesn't add up.

The numbers don't crunch - and both sets of numbers originate with the WTS.

1918 1928

U.S. of America 743 6,040
Australia 130 305
Argentina ----- 34
Austria ----- 261
Bahamas ----- 7
Brazil ----- 18
British Guiana ----- 15
British Isles 2,784 3,066
British West Indies
(Trinidad) ----- 189
Canada ----- 998
Costa Rica 73 -----
Cyprus ----- 4
Czechoslovakia ----- 106
Denmark 26 324
Finland ----- 305
France ----- 447
Saar ----- 60
Germany, West ----- 9,755
Greece 12 77
India 2 69
Jamaica 50 84
Netherlands ----- 57
Newfoundland 5 -----
New Zealand ----- 73
Nigeria ----- 7
Norway 15 85
Poland 20 430
Russia ----- 16
South Africa ----- 58
Surinam 8 7
Sweden ----- 253
Switzerland ----- 763

______ ______

TOTAL 3,868 23,988

...would those who disagreed with the Tower not be ostracized by JW members in the camps?

They were. There are documented accounts of the Bible Students/JW’s in the camps being anything but cohesive on many occasions, with their behavior towards each other being, in contrast, mean spirited and exercising shunning behaviour, just depending on how they were acting in relation to the ‘group rules’ or to the doctrinal dogma. There are accounts of some Bible Students/JW’s being ostracized and treated badly in the camps by their own group – exactly like they do today.

16

A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany

by Saintbertholdt in

what percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.

what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?

(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).

OrphanCrow

Finally I don't know where Marley Cole got the numbers

From Nathan Knorr. The book was a collaboration between Knorr and Cole. The book was presented as an "outside/independent" voice at the time it was published, without revealing that Cole was actually a Jehovah's Witness himself.

21

How do you know Satan didn't inspire the Bible?

by Coded Logic in

jws believe that satan knows things about the natural world (like how it was formed).. they also believe that satan can influence events (even fulfill prophecies).. the bible is the source of great confusion and the vast majority of christians (2.2 billion people) believe it but do not have "accurate knowledgetm".. from the jw point of view, wouldn't it be more likely that satan inspired the bible than an all loving god?.

OrphanCrow

Hmmmm....

Jehovah Unmasked

16

A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany

by Saintbertholdt in

what percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.

what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?

(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).

OrphanCrow

Good material, Saint.

Number crunching JW membership is a formidable task. There are so many factors to consider and conflicting numbers to deal with. It is difficult to sort othrough the estimates, the sources of data, etc.

Your theories are reasonably sound, at least, based on the information that is available. There is one thing though, that might need consideration. You speak of the Bible Students/JW men who signed the declaration, or simply went inactive, as being conscripted, and then returning after the war. I think it is reasonable to assume that not many returned. A large number would have died as war casualties.

I still, however, hard a hard time reconciling the numbers of JWs with the numbers of the Bible Students. The WTS always claims all the Bible Student numbers as their own, when there is much historical documentation that many German Bible Students did not consider themselves part of the WTS in the years leading up to WW2 and during the war. The numbers that the WTS claim as their own are padded with many Bible Students who did not follow the Rutherford/JW doctrine and who had already left to form groups such as "Free Bible Students Association". Those Bible Students who had broke away from the WTS would also have worn the purple triangle in the camps but they would not have considered themselves Jehovah's witnesses or part of the WTS.

16

A historic note on the amount of faithful witnesses in Germany

by Saintbertholdt in

what percentage of witnesses were actually faithful in germany after 1936?.

what i mean by the above question is what percentage of witnesses actually remained active?

(those who went to underground meetings/memorials and attempted field ministry).

OrphanCrow

Now either mass conversions occurred or the coast was now clear for inactive witnesses to return to the fold. Which is more plausible?

Both are plausible. I think both reasons account for the increase. I don't see why it has to be one or the other.

*to add -

I'll admit the 22 000 may be overblown by about 2 000. Penton 2004 (Jehovah's Witnesses and the Third Reich: Sectarian Politics Under Persecution) reports 20 000 witnesses in 1933 which aligns well with the memorial attendance (25 000) which is always a greater figure but is also a good indicator of approximate adherents. The Watchtower has historically been pedantic about the memorial figures. I took the figure of 20 000 and 25 000 and took an average and then rounded it down.

James Penton is using figures given by the WTS.

Marley Cole, in his book The New World Society, gives the figure for JWs in Germany in 1928 as 9,755. That number also originated from WTS records.

It does not seem plausible that the increase in Germany during the five years between 1928 and 1933 was over double. If the WTS numbers are to be believed, then you also have to believe that there were 12,245 Germans who converted during those 5 years - almost 2500 per year (using 22,000 as the number in 1933).

Oh well...maybe the Germans were really receptive to Rutherford's message after he disrupted the German Watchtower in 1925, causing a major schism in the religion.