Posts by OrphanCrow

37

Apostasy Trial - Part 2 - Satan is Using Google

by berrygerry in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=373zbncuuoq

OrphanCrow

An amendment to my earlier post about no 'observers' being allowed at judicial hearings. I forgot about the patriarchal garbage that is spewed forth from the Tower.

After reading some more in the Flock book, I have unearthed this little nugget from pg 84:

11. If the accused is a married sister, it is best
to have her believing husband present for the hearing.
He is her head, and his efforts to restore her and
direct her can be very helpful. (1 Cor. 11:3) If unusual
circumstances are involved or the elders feel it would
be best not to invite the husband because of their
concerns for the safety of the wife, the elders should
call the branch office.
12. If the accused is a married brother, his
wife would normally not attend the hearing. However,
if the husband wants his wife to be present, she
may attend a portion of the hearing. The judicial
committee should maintain confidentiality.

So, if you are a lowly woman who needs 'headship' from a believing mate, he should attend the hearing. However, the wording suggests that the husband is there to help 'discipline' her rather than support her.

Not so if you are a man with a wife. The rules are different depending on the type of genital equipment you were born with.

5

Where can I find an online copy of 'Babylon the Great' book published 1963?

by Esse quam videri in

pdf anywhere?

thanks for your help.

OrphanCrow

Not a pdf, but an online copy can be found here:

http://www.strictlygenteel.co.uk/babylon/babylontitles.html

*to add:

pdf available here.

37

Apostasy Trial - Part 2 - Satan is Using Google

by berrygerry in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=373zbncuuoq

OrphanCrow

steve2: Surely, though, there is provision for the individual who faces a hearing to have a support person present if he so chooses so that another 'witness' is on hand.

Actually, Steve, there isn't a provision such as you propose even though it would seem to be reasonable.

From pg 90 in Shepherd the Flock (secret elders' manual):

2..........The accused should be given opportunity
to respond to the testimony. If he wishes to present
witnesses to establish his innocence, the judicial
committee should allow them to give their testimony.

3. Hear only those witnesses who have relevant
testimony regarding the alleged wrongdoing.
Those who intend to testify only about the character
of the accused should not be allowed to do so. The
witnesses should not hear details and testimony of
other witnesses. Observers should not be present for
moral support. Recording devices should not be
allowed.

(highlighting mine)

37

Apostasy Trial - Part 2 - Satan is Using Google

by berrygerry in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=373zbncuuoq

OrphanCrow

steve2: although I should imagine if the elders dared to secretly video our friend's "trial", we'd be declaring them to be very deceptive and dishonest. Funny how we don't accuse our friend of that. Hmmmmmm.

It is not fair to put the elders and the one accused on the same playing field when they are not.

The relationship is one that is hugely power imbalanced, with the elders having all the power. If the elders taped the "trial" they would be reinforcing that power imbalance in their own favor. When the accused tapes the "trial", it is an attempt to balance out that power relationship and reclaim his personal power in an unfair situation. Even if you consider that the taped conversation is the accused person's "witness", the power dynamics still favor the elders.

You cannot compare the two positions fairly when the positions are unfairly balanced to begin with.

14

"Try-harders" going on witnessing "holidays" to countries under ban!

by stuckinarut2 in

i can't get over how many "try-harders" are going on "holidays" to countries that are under govt ban!.

they get tourist visas to get into the countries (such as parts of asia) but are really there to preach.... .

how dishonest!.

OrphanCrow

The author of the article, Leaving the Witness - a Preacher finds Freedom to Think in Totalitarian China, gives an interesting description of what it was like to be JW missionary in China.

When I got to China, things were really different, by necessity. Pro-selytizing is illegal. Religious meetings are banned. The preaching work and congregation meetings have to be conducted underground. This means that the handful of Witnesses in Shanghai can meet only covertly, which makes seeing each other more than once a week next to impossible. Preaching in the usual structured, door-to-door fashion is also, obviously, out of the question. For me, a Witness accustomed to a life of uniform routine, this seemed like an unprecedented adventure.
A couple of weeks after I arrived in Shanghai, I received a cryptic text message from a man who called himself James (some of us used fake names; we knew the Chinese government monitored electronic correspondence). He proposed meeting in a noisy local restaurant in the French Concession. I called his number when I got to the restaurant and he waved so I would know him. We chatted a few minutes, then he immediately got down to business. With a practiced manner, he explained the instructions from the branch office of Jehovah’s Witnesses as to how to conduct my missionary work. I was to find a job, perhaps teaching English, as a cover. Then I was to start cultivating relationships with worldly people, both Chinese and Westerners. These friendships were to be made with the sole purpose of religious conversion.

19

Mummy Dear Lies at Assemblies

by Tempest in a Teacup in

my zealously fanatic jw mum is aware of my current "tourist-jw" life.

what she doesn't know for sure is that she's part of the ones who brought me to this.. my mum was a quite moderate jw, she even got publically reproved once.

in our house, there was no daily text, no family study, no eating together, no preaching together, no watchtower study...even though she regularly checked my wt to see if i studied it.. being a single mother, she had a quite busy work schedule, so from the moment she woke up to the moment she went to bed, you'd better not waste a single minute of her time needlessly.

OrphanCrow

I told her that I don't get it when she goes about the circuit flaunting her parental skills family study wise because I have no memory whatsoever of us having any steady family study schedule. She blamed my memory and acted shocked.
I then realized (sadly) that she's done so much of it that she's begun to believe her own lies.

Ah Tempest. Your post rings familiar for me.

My mother is over 80 years old and the last time I saw her (a few years back), it was rather disturbing to listen to her re-construction of the years of abuse that she subjected her children to. In her mind, and in her statements, she was a model parent who NEVER hit her children. And, she made that assertion when she was standing six feet away from the spot that she beat me with a belt (buckle end) for the last time when I was 13 years old.

I was a bit shocked - my mother was a liar? - and then I realized that she had to lie. If she admitted the truth, she wouldn't be able to live with herself.

5

Article published in Philippines - "Group offers to translate Bible into Pangasinan" Name of Group? WTS Remote Translaton Office

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/685988/group-offers-to-translate-bible-into-pangasinan.

group offers to translate bible into pangasinan .

skilled translators from various pangasinan-speaking towns work hard every day without pay at the remote translation office of the watch tower in san carlos city, pangasinan province, to translate english bibles and bible-based literature into the mother tongue.

OrphanCrow

An article related to the news story in the OP:

http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/education-for-children-should-empower-not-indoctrinate

45

Huge Shift in Doctrine?

by Lemonp in

i am not sure why more people aren't talking about this?.

the march 15 study edition of the wt has some major changes!

- all unbiblical "types and antitypes" are now dropped.

OrphanCrow

They will never dump 1914 entirely.

Ah...the 1914 prophecy of Charles Russell. Supposedly the backbone of the JW tenet that they 'have the truth'. The one and only prophet that 'knew' that 1914 was significant in biblical prophecy.

However, Russell was not the only 'prophet' who heralded in the first world war.

Abdu'l-baha', the eldest son of Baha'ullah who was the founder of the Baha'i faith, is credited by the followers of Baha'i as accurately predicting the significance of 1914:

On a number of occasions 'Abdu'l-Bahá spoke of Armageddon in connection with the "Great War"' of 1914-1918. In an address delivered at Stanford University in October 1912 he is reported to have stated,
"We are on the eve of the battle of Armageddon, referred to in the 16th chapter of Revelation. The time is two years hence, when only a spark will set aflame the whole of Europe. The social unrest in all countries, the growing religious skepticism antecedent to the millennium are already here. Only a spark will set aflame the whole of Europe as is prophesied in the verses of Daniel and in the Book [Rev.] of John...."

http://bahai-library.com/lambden_catastrophe_millennium

7

Clergy as Mandatory Reporters of Child Abuse and Neglect

by OrphanCrow in

in the united states, the statutes governing mandatory reporting of child abuse are determined at the state level with variances occurring between states.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/clergymandated.pdf.

the statutes outlined in the above pdf are the statutes by which jw elders are accountable to according to the state in which they live.. candace conti's court case was filed in california and the reporting laws that apply to clergy in that state are as follows:.

OrphanCrow

GL Tirebiter: This statute consistently uses singular wording, not plural. That suggests that a Judicial Committee meeting would not be privileged as a penitential communication when than one elder is involved or if it includes witnesses. Is a legal professional in the audience able to confirm or refute this conclusion?

I am not a legal professional but the judge in the Conti case is one. This is what he said in relation to penitential communication:

The privilege for penitential communications does not apply unless the communication is made “in the presence of no third person so far as the penitent is aware,” a condition not satisfied at the Kendrick family meeting with the Congregation elders. (See Roman Catholic Archbishop of Los Angeles v. Los Angeles Superior Court, supra, 131 Cal.App.4th at pp. 444–445 [no privilege for communications 17 in church interventions with troubled priests because participants knew communications would likely be shared with more than one person].)

pg. 16 from

http://www.courts.ca.gov/opinions/documents/A136641.PDF?hc_location=ufi

45

Huge Shift in Doctrine?

by Lemonp in

i am not sure why more people aren't talking about this?.

the march 15 study edition of the wt has some major changes!

- all unbiblical "types and antitypes" are now dropped.

OrphanCrow

kaik: One of them is the 1918/1919 idiocy when they claimed that Bible Students were chosen by Jesus after for 3.5 years he was examining world's religion and discover a pack of prisoners charged with sedition in USA. I think it was 1919 year when they started to claim to be God's exclusive channel of communication.

That claim was not based on anything biblical or divine - the claim is rooted in the fact that the Watchtower Society purchased their own printing presses in 1919. The ownership of the printing presses is what gave the WTS their perceived authority. That authority did not come from 'God' - it came from money.