Posts by OrphanCrow

47

Article: Reveal News-California court guts child abuse ruling against Jehovah's Witnesses

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.revealnews.org/article/california-court-guts-child-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/.

california court guts child abuse ruling against jehovahs witnesses.

topics: religion / religion and government .

OrphanCrow

Where the WTs might end up shooting themselves in the foot over this court case is in the way that the elders have been presented and accepted by the legal system as members of 'the clergy'. The judgement in this case, that reverses the punitive damages, is based pretty much solely upon clergy privilege of confidentiality. The final judgement took the position that the court could not define for a religious institution what that 'clergy' could actually 'look' like and instead, reverted to established practice of 'staying out of religious business'.

Therefore, because this court case established that the JW elder system is 'clergy' in nature, cases that claim that the elders do not have a duty to mandatory report suspected cases of child abuse/rape because they are not clergy, no longer have a leg to stand on. This case establishes that the elders are, indeed, clergy. And bound by the same rules as such.

47

Article: Reveal News-California court guts child abuse ruling against Jehovah's Witnesses

by AndersonsInfo in

http://www.revealnews.org/article/california-court-guts-child-abuse-ruling-against-jehovahs-witnesses/.

california court guts child abuse ruling against jehovahs witnesses.

topics: religion / religion and government .

OrphanCrow

The judge was paid off pure and simple by the WT Society to minimize the judgment against the WT Society. It's certainly not a JUST settlement by any stretch of the word. My take is the judge got threatened by WT Society thugs- then paid off.

????

Flipper - I know that you're frustrated, but...statements like you just made are not productive at all. The charge of court bribery is pretty serious and should not be said lightly.

It is far too easy to point fingers at the WTS and the judge when it is more complicated than that. Lawyers need to arm themselves with the proper ammunition in order to fight these cases. Do not fault the judges who can only work with the material presented to them. Judges are not independent researchers - the lawyers are.

I read the judgement.

The judgement made sense.

If there was an error, it was made in the law to begin with, or in the way the case was filed and presented - the error was not made by the judge who was interpreting the law and evidence as it already exists.

This case is valuable in the long and lengthy fight ahead for the ones who are either in the legal process right now, or are considering entering into it. It makes an important contribution to the body of information available as to what works and what doesn't.

The judge has decided, based upon the existing law, that the WTS/elders are not required to alert parents of children that the rapist/abuser/molester may be in contact with.

At this point, what isn't going to work is to expect that the WTS and elders will announce to congregation members whether or not a child rapist/molester or sex offender is in their midst. The law has said that they don't have to. The law has said that it would be unreasonable and it may have unintended consequences if required to do so. If people would like to see this part of the law change, then it will take much work to make it a requirement as it would have effects in a much larger community.

But, they - the WTS and the elders - do have to monitor the activities of a child rapist/molester in certain environments.. That is the point that Rick Simmons was successful in making to the courts. The court has now decided that the WTS and the elders were negligent in providing that duty of care to Candace while Kendrick was engaged in church activities.

105

LATEST NEWS: CANDANCE CONTI VERIDICT READY - WT LOST!!!!!!!

by Viva la Vida in

jw
friends

i'm not an expert but that is my understanding of this: .

opinion filed.. (signed published) the judgment against defendants on the negligence count is affirmed.

the judgment against watchtower on the cause of action for punitive damages is reversed with directions to enter judgment for watchtower on punitive damages.

OrphanCrow

The WTS is being duplicitous in their presentation of their defense, which is not a surprise...but it is very annoying when they speak out of the sides of their mouth and the court listens to them.

From reading the court document regarding the judgement on this case, the WTS made the argument that the elders were bound by the confidentiality of penitential communication.

I don't understand how that clergy privilege can be used as a defense when their own literature denies that there is a clergy within the JWs:

http://www.silentlambs.org/noclergy.htm

The Watchtower, February 15, 1994 Issue, Page 7:
It is precisely because of this close adherence to Bible teachings that the veneration and idolization of human leaders so characteristic of cults today is not to be found among Jehovah's Witnesses. They reject the concept of a clergy-laity distinction. The Encyclopedia of Religion aptly states about Jehovah's Witnesses: "A clergy class and distinctive titles are prohibited."

13

Scripture Challenge: Theists, atheist, anti-theists, absentheists, satan worshippers whoever can help...

by freemindfade in

can anyone give me one or more scriptures in the first 5 books of the bible that would describe yhwh the tribal desert god as loving, kind, merciful, etc?...

and by loving i don't mean, "in order to release all the jews from slavery god @$$blasted the egyptians with ten plagues because he was so loving to his chosen race"..

OrphanCrow

Eh, freemindfade, that came later...from the minions. You are I know better than that - we aren't minions. God told us so - right at the beginning, way before anybody else decided to get in there and lie to us about what our daddy told us way back then! Lol!

:)

13

Scripture Challenge: Theists, atheist, anti-theists, absentheists, satan worshippers whoever can help...

by freemindfade in

can anyone give me one or more scriptures in the first 5 books of the bible that would describe yhwh the tribal desert god as loving, kind, merciful, etc?...

and by loving i don't mean, "in order to release all the jews from slavery god @$$blasted the egyptians with ten plagues because he was so loving to his chosen race"..

OrphanCrow

Genesis 1:29

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed..."

28

When you were Hard-Core JW, did Opponents Screaming or Filming you help your Exit?

by PokerPlayerPhil in

all of us are upset in different ways, some of us are ferociously angry because, let's face it, it's our fault!

i had many clues they were lying about our religion but i failed to see through them because of the pain of admitting we got conned and family pressure from peers stopped me from making a courageous choice.

when i read about people who confronted the elders and won their judicial committees (even though the jw elders df'ed them) my heart goes out to their courage, their amazingly stronger than i will ever be.

OrphanCrow

Your illustration reminds me of the dreadful Sunday morning talk speakers' useless comparisons of apples to oranges.

It isn't apples and oranges. And I intended on it sounding like something from the platform - I thought you might find a familiar format easier to understand. I was wrong.

If you advertise something as public and invite the public to your space, it is not illegal for the public to express their opinion on that property.

You are absolutely right - it is not illegal. I didn't say it was. But, the person who owns the property does have the right to expect reasonable and respectful behavior from the public who do attend.

The boundary that exists between 'personal' and 'public' space is not a legal one in this context - it is a social one.

Also, the events that caused the coining of the term "Stockholm Syndrome" were big when I was a child. I understand it well.

The fact that you were a child when those events happened is irrelevant. That is just as silly as saying that because you were a child in Poland when WW2 broke out that you understand the dynamics of why it happened.

The Stockholm incident is only the event that prompted an entire body of research in the field of psychology since then. The event only served as a foundation and a template in which to understand the dynamics of what occurs in power imbalanced relationships across a broad spectrum of human society. It is that body of knowledge that I am referring to when I speak of the Stockholm Syndrome, not the event itself.

I don't really think you are all that intelligent

I don't care what you think about me. Just like it doesn't matter what I think of you - we are all here to seek out the most effective way to combat the influence of the destruction that the WTS leaves in its wake.

45

Why do we get TTATT and others don't?

by quest81 in

jw
friends

i have thought about how ttatt came full circle for me.

how the connecting the dots was simple and just made sense,.

how silos of information are literally at our fingertips today.. why is it that the ones we love cannot get ttatt?.

OrphanCrow

quest61: why do we get the TTATT and others don't?

Because we can see the lie.

For whatever reason, we are included in the number of people who have the ability to perceive deception better than most. On average, a person is only able to spot a lie 53% of the time. We score better than that.

It isn't so much that we can see the truth - because 'truth' is such a nebulous thing and personal in nature, we already know our truth - it is because we can spot the lie.

And we are among that part of the population that doesn't like being lied to. That doesn't take brains or skill, it only takes guts. Courage and honesty. Anybody can have that, if they so dare.

34

Pregnant women refuses blood

by Giordano in

http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/jw-refusal-of-blood-transfusion-mother-and-baby-die#more-4001.

a 28-year-old woman and her unborn child have died because of the womans decision not to accept a lifesaving blood transfusion.. doctors at the royal hospital for women and prince of wales hospital in randwick, sydney, australia, have described the harrowing effect on hospital staff of two otherwise avoidable deaths.. the woman, a jehovahs witness, was seven months into her pregnancy when it was discovered she had leukaemia.. amy corderoy, health editor, reporting in the sydney morning herald states,.

more than 80% of pregnant women suffering from the cancer, called acute promyelocytic leukaemia, will go into remission with proper treatment, and the outlook for their babies is good.. .

OrphanCrow

Giordani:

People who died in the 1940's and way way beyond died of heart disease or any number of diseases because they could not survive the necessary surgery without blood. Yes they died from a disease ............but they also died because of the blood doctrine.

That is a good point. Adding those numbers, which could be quite high, to the other JW deaths that were blood refusal related, to the figure that Marvin gives of over 50,000 since 1961, would inflate that number by quite a bit. Medical technology prior to 1961 was not advanced as it was after that date.

Not only that, the consequences of refusing blood may not have resulted in death, but in some cases, resulted in life long health issues. Blood's most important role, which cannot be compensated for, by the use of saline, ringer's lactate, etc., is to transport oxygen. Deprivation of oxygen for any length of time results in permanent organ damage and tissue damage, which is irreversible. So, if you were one of the survivors of the noblood doctrine, and successfully came through a situation that where you should have received blood but didn't, you may have survived with permanent disability and a shortened life span. I have heard stories of people who refused blood, survived anyways, but had comprised health after - including inability to use their fingers or limbs in a functional way.

21

Do JWs suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

by campaign of hate in

jw
friends

this topic is what what it says on the tin.

do jws suffer/are suffering, from stockholm syndrome?.

getting abused (mentally) and then seem to form a relationship with the captives (wtbts).. there is also a condition called oslo syndrome, but haven't read up much about it.. personally, i think i might be suffering from the former.. would love to get a few opinions.....

OrphanCrow

To comment further about the extreme mind control employed by the WTS....

If you average out the numbers of deaths due to blood suicide in the JWs for the past 70 years, you arrive at a figure of 1428. And keep in mind, like Marvin has pointed out on another thread - that figure is conservative.

What is happening in reality, is that there has been a larger than Jonestown Massacre catastrophe happening each and every year since 1945, right under everybody's noses. It is happening right now. The noblood cards are simply cyanide capsules printed on paper.

What makes the WTS mind control even more horrendous, is that the WTS has even been able to convince others in the court systems and some in the medical profession that the blood suicide is acceptable and at the same time, keep the numbers of actual deaths silent. The blood massacre that has been happening, and still is, has happened right within the society at large.

The WTS has been successful in the mind control of the public as well as their adherents.

Now, that is mind control of the highest magnitude.

21

Do JWs suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

by campaign of hate in

jw
friends

this topic is what what it says on the tin.

do jws suffer/are suffering, from stockholm syndrome?.

getting abused (mentally) and then seem to form a relationship with the captives (wtbts).. there is also a condition called oslo syndrome, but haven't read up much about it.. personally, i think i might be suffering from the former.. would love to get a few opinions.....

OrphanCrow

sparrowdown: If Jonestown was considered to be at the high end of the spectrum then JWs are not quite there yet, ie shooting Senators and passing out cyanide at the meetings

Sparrowdown, the JWs don't have to pass out cyanide - they have the blood doctrine that substitutes for little capsules.

I posted the following information on another thread, but I will re-post it to show what I mean.

According to an article on page125 of the Australian Anesthesia 2011, titled The Management of Adult Jehovah’s Witnesses in Anaesthesia and Critical Care:

It is estimated that approximately 1000 Jehovah’s Witnesses die annually worldwide and as many as 100,000 may have died by abstaining from blood transfusions since the blood ban was introduced in 1945.

The Jonestown Massacre claimed the lives of 913 people. The WTS blood policy is estimated to claim the lives of 1000 JWs this year alone. The total number of blood suicides committed by JWs exceeds the Jonestown Massacre casualties by 100 times.

100,000 JWs have died for the blood god - 913 Jonestown followers died.