OrphanCrow

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Posts by OrphanCrow

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  51

  NEW 2012 Elders book with 2015 Amendments

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  thanks to jw archive wiki we have a pdf of the new elders book.. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz9z38909t3fh7c/2012-shepherd-the-flock-of-god-ks10_e.pdf?dl=0.

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  OrphanCrow

  Oubilette: It's social death.

  That is a concise and perfect description of the situation.

  I will remember that term - it's a good one.
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  21

  Do JWs suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

  by campaign of hate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic is what what it says on the tin.

  do jws suffer/are suffering, from stockholm syndrome?.

  getting abused (mentally) and then seem to form a relationship with the captives (wtbts).. there is also a condition called oslo syndrome, but haven't read up much about it.. personally, i think i might be suffering from the former.. would love to get a few opinions.....

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  OrphanCrow

  fliipper: JW's may not be killing people literally in a violent fashion

  No, the JWs themselves don't literally kill people. But, they do believe, and heartily endorse, their god Jehovah killing the entire population of the planet except for them. In fact, many JWs take great delight in the idea of wholesome slaughter.

  The JW believe that they don't have to do that dirty work of killing - their god will do it for them.

  The 'killing' that is integrated into the WTS doctrines, is also acted out in their disfellowshipping policies where they are encouraged to treat the shunned person as though they are already dead.

  I agree, Flipper - it is pretty scary. The JWs are expected to do whatever the WTS tells them to - no questions asked.
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  51

  NEW 2012 Elders book with 2015 Amendments

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  thanks to jw archive wiki we have a pdf of the new elders book.. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz9z38909t3fh7c/2012-shepherd-the-flock-of-god-ks10_e.pdf?dl=0.

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  OrphanCrow

  Did you know the Elders under the older regimes would have a young child crossed examined by the pedophile who molested her/him?

  This following example involves two adult women who accused a JW man of sexually assaulting them. The JWs do not have a clear idea of the difference between a minor child and an adult, so I do not think that it is unreasonable to assume that they would treat a minor child in the same manner.

  The two women, who both live in Barry, were then forced to face their attacker at church judicial committees, chaired by elders. Wendy said: “My husband and I sat in a room with Mark and his wife as the elders heard both sides of the story.
  “They asked me all sorts of very personal questions, including how far apart he pushed my legs, then put the allegations to Mark. It was excruciating. I was never told to go to the police and the Church didn’t either.”
  Mum-of-two Karen, 38, said: “I had to sit in front of a man who had touched me and give all the sordid details to three ageing male elders while Mark branded me a liar. I later went to the police but Mark said ‘no comment’ through the interview and it was his word against mine.”
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  21

  Do JWs suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

  by campaign of hate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic is what what it says on the tin.

  do jws suffer/are suffering, from stockholm syndrome?.

  getting abused (mentally) and then seem to form a relationship with the captives (wtbts).. there is also a condition called oslo syndrome, but haven't read up much about it.. personally, i think i might be suffering from the former.. would love to get a few opinions.....

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  OrphanCrow

  sparrowdown: If Jonestown was considered to be at the high end of the spectrum then JWs are not quite there yet, ie shooting Senators and passing out cyanide at the meetings.

  The resulting behavior from the mind control of JWs may not be the same as other high control cults - but we are not evaluating that - we are evaluating the degree of control, not the resulting behavior.

  Just because JWs don't shoot Senators or pass out cyanide pills does not mean that they are controlled less than those who do - they just simply are controlled on different types of behavior.

  This would be like comparing two different abusers - one just slaps the woman open-handed and the other one uses their fists to break her nose. The effects on the victim is the same. It doesn't matter if the abuser makes their victim do the dishes or makes them take off all their clothes and run down the street - the dynamics in the two relationship are identical.

  The degree of mind control is not judged on the results themselves - it is judged on how controlled the victim is in obtaining those result, their loyalty to the one who controls their mind. The resulting behavior can be anything from minor to major demands.
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  34

  Pregnant women refuses blood

  by Giordano in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://jehovahswitnessreport.com/blog/jw-refusal-of-blood-transfusion-mother-and-baby-die#more-4001.

  a 28-year-old woman and her unborn child have died because of the womans decision not to accept a lifesaving blood transfusion.. doctors at the royal hospital for women and prince of wales hospital in randwick, sydney, australia, have described the harrowing effect on hospital staff of two otherwise avoidable deaths.. the woman, a jehovahs witness, was seven months into her pregnancy when it was discovered she had leukaemia.. amy corderoy, health editor, reporting in the sydney morning herald states,.

  more than 80% of pregnant women suffering from the cancer, called acute promyelocytic leukaemia, will go into remission with proper treatment, and the outlook for their babies is good.. .

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  OrphanCrow

  flipper: How many thousands of mind controlled brain dead JW's have lost their lives by following this advice or lost their children's lives by refusing blood ?

  Well, according to an article on page125 of the Australian Anesthesia 2011, titled The Management of Adult Jehovah’s Witnesses in Anaesthesia and Critical Care:

  It is estimated that approximately 1000 Jehovah’s Witnesses die annually worldwide and as many as 100,000 may have died by abstaining from blood transfusions since the blood ban was introduced in 1945.

  The author of the article, Anne-Marie Welsh, does not give a reference for the estimate. I have been unsuccessful in my attempts to contact her to find out where she got that information from.
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  28

  When you were Hard-Core JW, did Opponents Screaming or Filming you help your Exit?

  by PokerPlayerPhil in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all of us are upset in different ways, some of us are ferociously angry because, let's face it, it's our fault!

  i had many clues they were lying about our religion but i failed to see through them because of the pain of admitting we got conned and family pressure from peers stopped me from making a courageous choice.

  when i read about people who confronted the elders and won their judicial committees (even though the jw elders df'ed them) my heart goes out to their courage, their amazingly stronger than i will ever be.

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  OrphanCrow

  And NO, the Kingdumb hall is no one's personal space. Sunday meetings are listed as public. Check your facts. I know about Stockholm syndrome. I am Scandinavian. This open protest to the memorial has nothing to do with that. This is type of flawed logic jws use to justify their arguments.

  On another thread you called me 'smart'. I am unable to return the compliment.

  I will try to explain to you the difference between personal and public space in the context of the JWs by giving you an illustration that might help you 'get it'.

  Let's say that you own your own home - or maybe you just rent it. It is your home. Your 'personal' space.

  Now, let's say that you decide to have a household sale for whatever reason - you want to sell off all your old furniture and the extra car you have in your garage. So you advertise an open house - you open your house to the public for the sale.

  Now, with your logic, your house is now a target for anyone coming into it and doing whatever they want. According to you - your home is no longer a 'personal space'.

  I realize that the JWs advertise their Sunday worship as being 'open to the public'. That phrase is an invitation for the public to come and share the space that is normally for JWs. The public does not own that space - the JWs do. That is what is meant by the term 'personal space'. It is a political label. It designates the 'political' position of the parties involved based upon 'ownership' (not necessarily monetary) of space.

  So an interruption to a lifeless ceremony will cause the destruction of someone being saved? HAHAHA.

  Your statement makes it very clear that being Scandinavian has nothing at all to do with understanding the Stockholm Syndrome.
  
  
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  28

  When you were Hard-Core JW, did Opponents Screaming or Filming you help your Exit?

  by PokerPlayerPhil in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all of us are upset in different ways, some of us are ferociously angry because, let's face it, it's our fault!

  i had many clues they were lying about our religion but i failed to see through them because of the pain of admitting we got conned and family pressure from peers stopped me from making a courageous choice.

  when i read about people who confronted the elders and won their judicial committees (even though the jw elders df'ed them) my heart goes out to their courage, their amazingly stronger than i will ever be.

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  OrphanCrow

  You sound like an apologist

  I am not an apologist. I just understand the dynamics of the type of situation you are speaking of. And I understand what activism and public protest entails. I also understand that some protests do far more harm than good by the way that they are carried out.

  They did not enter anyone's personal space. The memorial is a public event.

  The Memorial may be a public event, but the Kingdom Hall itself is the 'personal space' of the JWs. You know that.

  
  

  Also, your claim that that type of protest would never reach anyone is unproven

  I didn't make that claim. I said that if you save one person, that it comes at the cost of destroying many others' chances at being saved. Please do not say that I have said something I didn't.

  What is proven, though, is that aggressive action by others towards either the abuser or the victim results in a tighter bond between the two. This is common and accepted knowledge within the field of psychology.

  Did you not read the link I posted in the other thread about Stockholm Syndrome? If you didn't, you should.
• 
  51

  NEW 2012 Elders book with 2015 Amendments

  by Newly Enlightened in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  thanks to jw archive wiki we have a pdf of the new elders book.. https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz9z38909t3fh7c/2012-shepherd-the-flock-of-god-ks10_e.pdf?dl=0.

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  OrphanCrow

  The following questions should be answered with regard
  to the accuser: (1) What is the level of maturity
  of the child or youth? (2) Is he (or she) describing
  conduct that one his age would not normally know
  about? (3) Is the child or his parents known to be serious,
  mature? (4) Is his memory consistent, or is it
  intermittent, or does it involve repressed memories?

  Ugh, That just makes my stomach churn. Window washers are not qualified to make those judgments or even to ask the appropriate questions required to determine the answers without re-traumatizing the child accuser.

  Since when do unqualified people know enough about 'repressed memories' to make an accurate decision about the validity of a child's memory?? Eh...I will answer that. They don't. A JW elder knows fuck all about memories, repressed or not.

  Elders are not psychologists by any stretch of the imagination and by following the WTS directed behavior they are harming the victim even further..
• 
  28

  When you were Hard-Core JW, did Opponents Screaming or Filming you help your Exit?

  by PokerPlayerPhil in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  all of us are upset in different ways, some of us are ferociously angry because, let's face it, it's our fault!

  i had many clues they were lying about our religion but i failed to see through them because of the pain of admitting we got conned and family pressure from peers stopped me from making a courageous choice.

  when i read about people who confronted the elders and won their judicial committees (even though the jw elders df'ed them) my heart goes out to their courage, their amazingly stronger than i will ever be.

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  OrphanCrow

  Ninja: Non violent protest should not be demonized. Even if it doesn't cause droves of people to question their religion, it may just reach one person that experiences it. That one person is a difference maker.

  I am not sure what you mean by "non violent protest", Ninja. I am going to assume that your comment relates to the recent display by some young, immature men at the Memorial.

  A violent act does not need to be defined by whether or not it causes physical injury - many acts are violent in nature by the virtue of aggressiveness. There is a big difference between aggressiveness and assertiveness.

  Aggressiveness attacks other people's space - assertiveness is about claiming your own space.

  The nature of the relationship between the JW adherents and the WTS is an abusive and controlling one. And, with that in mind, any attacks or aggressive methods only serve to tighten the bond between the WTS and the JW.

  So, your comment that "it may just reach one person that experiences it. That one person is a difference maker" is a fallacy. That one person comes at a pretty high price - the aggressive actions required to 'save' that one person can, and does, throw all the other JWs under the bus, who could potentially be reached with more sophisticated methods. For every one you 'save', you sacrifice the countless others who could be 'saved' but instead are pushed into an even tighter relationship with the WTS by that aggressive action.

  
  
• 
  21

  Do JWs suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

  by campaign of hate in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this topic is what what it says on the tin.

  do jws suffer/are suffering, from stockholm syndrome?.

  getting abused (mentally) and then seem to form a relationship with the captives (wtbts).. there is also a condition called oslo syndrome, but haven't read up much about it.. personally, i think i might be suffering from the former.. would love to get a few opinions.....

  1. 
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• 

  OrphanCrow

  sparrowdown: But would I be right in concluding that "mind control" is on a spectrum with the WT being somewhere in the middle?

  If you were to place "mind control" on a spectrum, I would place the WT in the 'high' category.

  The WTS/JWs are a high control cult. They don't even need the geographical isolation that some suicide cults employ - they manage to control their members by isolating them within the culture at large. And, they even manage to convince their members to die to prove their loyalty. That is high control, not medium.