Posts by OrphanCrow

5

The WTBTS has had insurance that possibly includes cover for Child Abuse since 1984

by Listener in

this is in a statement made by the australian branch committee member o'brien, the insurance is held by the wtbts pennsylvania.

no doubt the cost of that insurance would be astronomical the more claims they are making against it but it would greatly influence the way they deal with court cases and potential court cases, including settlement.

if they are covered for these claims then their concerns would be more about publicity than the amounts awarded or paid to the victim.. although o'brien states that the cover could possibly include any australian claims he would not have said so or even thought there was a need to reveal the information if the organization hadn't already made claims under their insurance.

OrphanCrow

Listener: This is in a statement made by the Australian Branch Committee member O'Brien, the insurance is held by the WTBTS Pennsylvania. No doubt the cost of that insurance would be astronomical the more claims they are making against it but it would greatly influence the way they deal with Court cases and potential Court cases, including settlement. If they are covered for these claims then their concerns would be more about publicity than the amounts awarded or paid to the victim.
Although O'Brien states that the cover could possibly include any Australian claims he would not have said so or even thought there was a need to reveal the information if the organization hadn't already made claims under their insurance.

I didn't think that the Australian Branch carried liability insurance for the directors. Maybe I am reading their financial statement wrong. This is what was submitted to the Royal Commission:

INDEMNITIES AND INSURANCE
Under the entity's Attic/es of Assodation, Watchtower Bible & Tract Sociery ofAustralia (the "Company") is
required to indemnify, to the extent permitted by Law, each Officer of the entity against
• liability to third parties arising out of conduct undertaken in his capacity as an Officer of
the entity, unless the liability arises out of conduct involving a lack of good faith, willful
misconduct or reckless behavior; and
• the costs and expenses of successfully defending legal proceedings arising out of conduct
undertaken in his capacity as an Officer of the Company.

The Company has not, during or since the end of the financial year, in respect of any person who is or
has been an officer or auditor of the Company:
• indemnified, or made any relevant agreement for indemnifying, against a liability that was
incurred by an officer of the Company, including costs and expenses in defending legal
proceedings; or
• paid, or agreed to pay, a premium in respect of a contract insuring against a liability
incurred by an officer of the Company, for the costs and expenses in defending legal
proceedings.

The financial statement says that each director carries $100 in personal liability.

That doesn't seem like very much. And, the statement says nothing about insurance carried by the parent organization in New York.

I also don't believe O'brien when he says that no records or stats on child abuse were sent up the line. That would go against everything we know about the WTS control and the need to know about everything that happens in the congregations. The WTS brags about their meticulous record keeping - why woud the child abuse numbers not also be reported?

The WT guys are trying to cover up one lie with another lie with another lie...their house of cards is tumbling.

25

How big a deal is the royal commission..? It seems to be not much...

by _Morpheus in

my understanding (very limited and maybe flawed) is that this commission has no teeth.

if thats true why would the org care?

send a few lawyers, go through the motions but in the end.... its a dog parking on a porch.

OrphanCrow

The Royal Commission does have teeth.

It sits within a much larger political and legal structure. Other countries are watching closely - Canada and Britain especially, who also conduct investigations of this kind. The results of Royal Commissions become a part of public record, archived and accessible to everyone.

The other agency/organization that is watching closely is the Catholic Church. Dismantling the WTS structure could impact their structure as well.

The effects of inquiries of this type sometimes take years to implement. Unless, of course, things are revealed that are of a criminal nature. Then, outside agencies could get involved. This testimony is valid court testimony that can reveal the ways in which the WTS is accountable legally in other courts. For example, if fraud was revealed, probably a police agency would perk up its ears.

I think that police investigations are already underway - or soon will be - into all those 1006 paedophile files that the WT Branch did not report. The names are now known to the authorities and I would guess they will act on the ones they are able to. Those cases will be investigated. The Royal Commission would not hide them from the authorities like the WTS did. And what about "the list"? That could reveal more criminals in hiding.

I have faith - I think changes are coming. And criminal justice.

10

Royal Commission and blood transfusion refusal for children?

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

i wonder if the royal commission has examined the practice of jws being led to refuse blood transfusion for children when medically necessary to save life or preserve health in relation to the question of child abuse.

i've not heard anything about this brought up.

is the rc concerned solely with life altering abuse only in the form of sexual molestation, or is it looking at how the organization deals with all life altering forms of abuse jw children are exposed to the result of watchtower teaching and society?

OrphanCrow

Wow, Marvin. Maybe this Commission will last for years if they manage to get into the child blood sacrifices.

That would open up a whole closet full of skeletons, wouldn't it? Wow. the testimony that the blood issue would bring forth would be groundbreaking. So far, most of the legal fights have been the JWs fighting for the right to die and let their children die. This would be the first time that the victims of the blood doctrine would get to speak.

The issues around the blood doctrine are huge and encompass the medical world, ethics, and victims all over the world. Just think, it was an Australian doctor who recently published the figure of 100,000 JW deaths since the beginning of the blood ban. Many of those were children.

And, to take a comprehensive look at how children have been affected by that blood doctrine, there are survivors of blood refusal whose lives and health have been permanently affected by the blood transfusion ban. Not only are there children that survived with health problems directly related to the refusal of blood, but also extended families outside of the JWs who have been affected by loss of loved ones who refused blood.

I have my personal story that relates directly to how the blood ban affected my baby, and I am sure there are many others with similar and worse to tell. How children have been left motherless, and how children were raised with a fear of blood - the life saving fluid that the rest of the world has access to. That same fluid that Christians say that Christ shed and gave to us as a symbol of life and love. The JW children have been denied life saving blood.

My uncle died way back in 1962, denied surgery because of the blood transfusion ban. I know of the bitterness that still lingers in his nonJW family. I spoke to his sister a couple years ago and she is still angry that her brother was denied medical treatment that could have helped him - all because of the JWs. He wasn't even baptized and my JW aunt had taken control of his care.

I had made a comment on an earlier thread that if the two witness rule gets dismantled, through the careful reasoning of the legal minds who have done a fine job so far, the next doctrine to fall would be the blood doctrine. It is built upon the same faulty logic used to justify the two witness rule. That is why the WTS is being so stubborn on that two witness "law" - it comes from the same "law" as the blood law.

Once the blood doctrine gets put on the table, then things could get truly ugly - the blood will literally flow up to the horse's bridles. Especially in Australia - where the bloodless JWs have already become an item of interest.

Good thread, Marvin. I am with you on this one. Children should not be martyred like they have been on the Watchtower cover all because of a law that the WTS decided to cherry pick out of an old book.

The WTS' disregard for children is all encompassing and cruel. The blood ban clearly supports that.

37

[Day 7 - 5/8]The Royal Commissions investigation of child sexual abuse within Jehovah’s Witnesses. + VIDEO

by C0ntr013r in

i give you day 7 of the royal commissions proceedings:.

part 1 has been uploaded and part 2 and 3 will soon be available.. part 1:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk0lgqedy_i.

OrphanCrow

TheOldHippie: then you come up with the - sorry for saying so - most stupid statement of the day. A plain lie, and no matter what one thinks about present-day JWs and WT, that does in no way make it legitime to minimize their sufferings during WWII or to try to explain it away or claim it was their own fault. Shame on you in this respect. Downplaying past tragedies because of present-day policies is just plain wrong and bad.

Sorry, it is not a lie what I said.

I was reponding to the comments made on the stand. I wasn't the one who brought up the WTS' revionist history, Spinks was the one who did.

My response was accurate. Spinks left out the known history of the JWs who had work assignments with the SS when he played the "JWs in the camps" card and he did not provide accurate information. The JWs in Nazi Germany were arrested for spreading oppositional propaganda - their arrests predate the start of WW2 by many years, long before Germany started military action, and they did have work assignments with the SS like building Heinrich Himmler's castle. If Spinks was going to bring up the role of JWs in WW2, then the whole story deserves to be told.

49

Justice McClellan was annoyed by not being made aware of the authority of Jackson as a GB top dog. Material needed if any one here could ..

by umbertoecho in

hello again.. splash had a pile of scriptural evidence which he uploaded and it was good material.

it established the gb as the fds and used watchtower study articles.........i don't know if he was the only one but the material flew in the face of what those men have been saying.

it proves, using their own material how they indeed think they are the ones with the direct control over millions of lives, because as you know.........they are the direct hot line to god.

OrphanCrow

Umber: They seem very worried about having their financials looked at...

Were they ever! The WT lizard almost knocked his chair over standing up to protest the submission of the letter.

He was stuck between a rock and a hard place - he couldn't let the information out, and now, he has brought the court's attention to those parts. Which, of course, will make McClelland scrutinize the document and those parts even closer.

I have a suspicion that their financials don't line up with that audited financial statement they submitted to the Commission to show how broke they are. Which reminds me, umber...another thing that might be fun to track down is some more information on who the auditor was for that statement. A Peter Marshall, I think...something like that. I can't find much about him - he seems like a little fish in a big pond. I wonder if he swims in the JW pond - he certainly is doing business with a bunch of sharks.

8

It seems the Royal Commission has been adjourned for the day.

by umbertoecho in

i have been to the website expecting to see the days commencement, but a note is there at the bottom saying this meeting has been adjourned for today.

this was posted about 17 hours ago.. anyone else heard of this?.

might give some people the opportunity to read through the transcripts.

OrphanCrow

Well, the WT lizard did submit that the judge could "read this document at his Honor's leisure..." Yeah, right. Like the Justice has "leisure time". That WT lizard is scaly. I can't stand his voice...so smooth and slippery. I feel dirty just listening to him.

I am sure that the Commission has much to consider. Umber. you are right. Just think of all the emails they have coming in from all over with source material and such to add to the evidence against the WTS. I betcha the JWs haven't mounted a campaign in defense of those WTS guys.

I am so gald to hear that this hearing will get extended if necessary. It needs to stay focused and the WTS tactic is to send up delay tactics to hide behind. Give the opposition a flood of material to wade through and hope they can "fix" the laws through boredom and overload of work.

You notice how the WT branch guys revert to teaching when they are on the stand. They think they are using the question and answer format to educate the courts.

49

Justice McClellan was annoyed by not being made aware of the authority of Jackson as a GB top dog. Material needed if any one here could ..

by umbertoecho in

hello again.. splash had a pile of scriptural evidence which he uploaded and it was good material.

it established the gb as the fds and used watchtower study articles.........i don't know if he was the only one but the material flew in the face of what those men have been saying.

it proves, using their own material how they indeed think they are the ones with the direct control over millions of lives, because as you know.........they are the direct hot line to god.

OrphanCrow

Perfect! If Jackson doesn't appear, the Catholic expert will have a difficult time defending the JWs archaic judicial system.

Jackson is on both the teaching and writing departments - both of which Applewhite claims to have examined so closely. And says are so good for teaching about child sex abuse. I hope he gets to explain the benefits of the most recent monster cartoon.

Jackson has to appear if they hope to have the court accept Applewhite's expert report, that they weaseled more time out of the court for presentation. She is going to have a hard time coming up with a relevant report after a representative from those two departments either doesn't show or dors show and makes an ass out of all of them.

The screws are tightening.

cattails: I love Angus! He's awesome and hot too!

I am a huge Angus Stewart fan as well. His courtroom presence is so good. I wouldn't want to piss him off. I love that he lets his emotions show - he got really pissed at the end of last session when the WT lizard was trying to block parts of the letter that Stewart submitted.

Stewart has a brilliant mind - I am honored to observe it in action. Impressive. He is cute, too. I betcha everybody wanted to pinch his cheeks when he was a little guy! Lol!

49

Justice McClellan was annoyed by not being made aware of the authority of Jackson as a GB top dog. Material needed if any one here could ..

by umbertoecho in

hello again.. splash had a pile of scriptural evidence which he uploaded and it was good material.

it established the gb as the fds and used watchtower study articles.........i don't know if he was the only one but the material flew in the face of what those men have been saying.

it proves, using their own material how they indeed think they are the ones with the direct control over millions of lives, because as you know.........they are the direct hot line to god.

OrphanCrow

Here is a recent thread that has links to the Charter documents:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/335940001/watchtower-charter-danger-gb

I would like to see the Commission sink their teeth into the "annointed status" and then, who the actual members of the Watchtower Society are. These jokers get away with the claim that "we are just Jehovah's Witnesses" when some have that elite membership into the Society itself. Society membership has an elevated status.

49

Justice McClellan was annoyed by not being made aware of the authority of Jackson as a GB top dog. Material needed if any one here could ..

by umbertoecho in

hello again.. splash had a pile of scriptural evidence which he uploaded and it was good material.

it established the gb as the fds and used watchtower study articles.........i don't know if he was the only one but the material flew in the face of what those men have been saying.

it proves, using their own material how they indeed think they are the ones with the direct control over millions of lives, because as you know.........they are the direct hot line to god.

OrphanCrow

The Watchtower Society Charter might be useful. The charter sets out the lines of authority. the WTS might try to claim scriptual lines of authority, but the legal parameters are bound by corporate law, I would think.

Now that the Royal Commission has moved up the corporate ladder, the NY documents should apply.

28

Is Geoffrey W. Jackson a "ringer"? Was he sent coached how to testify? Is this a setup? I think so.

by Wasanelder Once in

if you have heard g. jackson speak you can tell that he is smooth.

he is a good speaker with a commanding voice.

i think the gb knew this was going to happen and prepped him to testify.

OrphanCrow

3rdgen: a believer would argue that Jesus knew what he was singing up for when he accepted the Messiah gig. It was in the job description. I think he got the memo at baptism. Whereas, the others were pretty much blindsided.

Well, the GB shouldn't be blindsided. Doesn't "martyr" come with their job description?

I would think that their annointed status would qualify them for advance warning. After all, they claim to rub shoulders with Jesus. They say they are going to rule with him.