Posts by OrphanCrow

23

Is this what the society imagines will be above that 'secret hiding room' in the basement?

by Esse quam videri in

OrphanCrow

No respectable JW woman would be caught dead in denim outside!

That must be regional. I see JW women in denim outside. Rural Canada.

Besides....if the Big A is happening, maybe she didn't have time to change.

I think that the assumption that 'they are clearly not witnesses' is a bit ridiculous and myopic.

*to add - I am not disagreeing that JWs will label this woman as 'wordly' based upon her choice of fabric to cover her legs while she is running. What I find fascinating is the building of the 'myth' by the WTS - how, through social conditioning and repetitive notions of what constitutes 'witness' behavior from 'world' behavior', a 'witness' can spot the signs of worldly conduct simply by identifying the fabric of female attire.

It is an amazing feat on the part of the WTS propaganda machine - to actually train and teach JWs to fabricate their own myth within an image. Fascinating.

So...based on the woman's denim rather than other fabric...are the men non-witnesses too? By association? Or is denim a prohibited fabric for JW men, too?

23

Is this what the society imagines will be above that 'secret hiding room' in the basement?

by Esse quam videri in

OrphanCrow

runForever
The survivors are clearly not witnesses.

Please explain.

It is not clear to me that the people are not witnesses. How do you come to that conclusion based upon the image?

14

Is 1919 Important to the WT?

by Anon_SA1 in

does anyone know if the wt still claims they were appointed in 1919?

is there proof of this appointment?

any ideas where i can find out how they get to this date?

OrphanCrow

So that’s why in the minds of the GB (whose motto is “Money First”) they were saved by wads of Dollars in 1919.

Yes, exactly.

The 'appointment' that occurred in 1919 was intimately linked to the bail-out that was required after Rutherford negotiated his way out of a lengthy prison sentence.

When Rutherford and his cronies were released from the Atlanta prison (which held many political prisoners besides Rutherford et al), they found the WTS' property about to be confiscated. So, Joe made one of his many trips out to California, and, lo and behold, some dude showed up back at WTS headquarters with cash taped to his body under his shirt. (George Butterfield?)

That cash bailed out the almost defunct publishing company and gave the WTS the impetus to purchase their own printing presses. Up until that time, Conkey had been the main printer.

1919 saw the WTS move from being just a publishing company to being a printing company in its own right. The purchase of printing presses ensured that they now had full control of whatever propaganda they needed to print in order to satisfy the demands of that 'loan' that was given them.

1919 was the year that the Golden Age was born. That early marketing magazine reflects the political and financial concerns of the investors that put their faith in the power of religious propaganda to sway the marketplace and/or political arena.

In 1919, the WTS was 'appointed' by invisible (but real) investors to be in charge of their financial and political concerns. Find out who those investors were, and you will find Jehovah.

55

Are we pro-shunning or against it?

by Simon in

just to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.

it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.

they need to stop it.

OrphanCrow

Plus..
When has the WBT$ ever Clothed,Housed and Fed their Condemned?!!..
They don`t even do it for their "OWN NEEDY" in Good Standing with the WBT$..
The Outside World treats Criminals better,than the WBT$ does their Own People..

Plus...

A convicted criminal, once they have served their sentence, gets out of jail.The only ones who stay in jail are those with life sentences.

The WTS gives everyone they disfellowship a life sentence. Unless, of course, you bend over when the big guys tell you to.

Hey - it is like jail...except it is upside down. Being shunned keeps you out of the WTS jail and being re-instated is like going to jail.

Bend over, all you lovelys!

20

How Many Disfellowshipped Are There In The US?

by Village Idiot in

i've read in the watchtower, as well as observed personally, that 1% of the congregation gets disfellowshipped every year.

i'm not good at the math but i figure that it's 40% since 1975 (yes i know, they're growing).

i know that quite a few return but still, there must be a large percentage of disfellowshipped jws who will never return.

OrphanCrow

Vidiot (I think it was vidiot..) had made a comment on another thread that it is possible that the WTS isn't really all that concerned with growth. I agree.

The disfellowshipping policy goes against the idea of growth - hell, if the WTS wanted to brag about growth and increasing numbers, all they would have had to do a long time ago was stop kicking so many out.

It makes a person wonder why so many 'bad people' would have been attracted to this religion in the first place.

55

Are we pro-shunning or against it?

by Simon in

just to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.

it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.

they need to stop it.

OrphanCrow

If he kicked you out would you retaliate by vindictively using legal means or other means to try to get back at him or his website? If you did, it would reveal a lot about the kind of person that you are.

Fisherman, I realize what you are saying. However, I don't think it is fair to compare getting kicked off a forum to the JW form of shunning.

If a person gets kicked off this forum, there are no other repercussions other than they cannot make posts anymore. That is all that will happen to a person - they can still hug their kids, have supper with Gramps and Gramma, etc, etc...

It would be silly to retaliate against an action that has so little consequence for your life. It is not silly to fight for your family back.

11

History of Disfellowshipping

by daringhart13 in

i'm looking to compile a real history of how this heinous practice came into existance.. i've read the 1947 article condemning it and i believe knorr instituted it in 1952 when frustrated with a wife swapping ordeal at columbia heights.. can someone confirm?

post information?

the more the better.......thanks!.

OrphanCrow

I think the persecution from the clergy also started after he took over

Actually, Russell was heavily criticized by many members of the clergy and others.

Archive.org has some interesting documents that confirm this:

https://archive.org/details/CharlesTazeRussell-ReplyToCritics

https://archive.org/details/SomeFactsAndMoreFactsAboutCharlesTazeRussell

https://archive.org/details/TheTeachingsOfPastorRussell

https://archive.org/details/errorsofrusselli00forr

https://archive.org/details/millennialdawnhe00eato

https://archive.org/details/ThreeBlasphemiesMillennialDawn

https://archive.org/details/ThesevenThundersOfMillennialDawn

Those are a few of the critiques published during Russell's time. More than one member of the clergy did not like him.

59

Asshole Atheism – Not for me, now or ever.

by donny in

to start off with let me clarify that by asshole atheism i am not referring to strong atheism or any other type of upfront atheism.

what i am referring to is the belligerent, hateful atheism that smacks of trolls and other types who want to derail conversation or comments at any cost..

i enjoy hearing comments from both sides of the subjects of theism, nationalism or politics, especially from those who have intense opinions.

OrphanCrow

Assholism is not confined to any one set of beliefs, race, gender, or any other defining characteristic of a person/group.

An asshole is an asshole. You can find them everywhere there are people.

20

How Many Disfellowshipped Are There In The US?

by Village Idiot in

i've read in the watchtower, as well as observed personally, that 1% of the congregation gets disfellowshipped every year.

i'm not good at the math but i figure that it's 40% since 1975 (yes i know, they're growing).

i know that quite a few return but still, there must be a large percentage of disfellowshipped jws who will never return.

OrphanCrow

Village Idiot:
I'm seeing signs of a hemorrhage in JWdom

I think the bleeding has been happening ever since the Tower was established.

All a person has to do is investigate how many splinter groups there has been over the years. Many of these splinter groups have been recently established.

http://www.witness-outreach.com/Splinter.html

20

How Many Disfellowshipped Are There In The US?

by Village Idiot in

i've read in the watchtower, as well as observed personally, that 1% of the congregation gets disfellowshipped every year.

i'm not good at the math but i figure that it's 40% since 1975 (yes i know, they're growing).

i know that quite a few return but still, there must be a large percentage of disfellowshipped jws who will never return.

OrphanCrow

Percentages and stats would be hard to come by, VillageIdiot. The WTS publishes numbers but I don't see how they could possibly keep track of the 'fall-aways' and faders and hanger-ons. Disfellowshipped people they can keep stats on (and I don't believe the WTS stats), but the others would be difficult to track.

I have encountered many ex-JWs in some pretty unexpected places and circumstances. Lots. Some were disfellowshipped, but most were just 'faders'. I have often thought that it is possible that there are far more ex-JWs than there are JWs.