Posts by OrphanCrow

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

In turn the drug company would ask the WT to clarify with it's members that this is ok to do.

In an ideal world, yes, the WT would "clarify with it's members that this is ok to do". Watchtower Land doesn't work that way.

Can I have a show of hands as to how many of you participated in that 'clarification' when it came to Hemopure? Or, were you just as surprised and a bit confused as to why it was all of a sudden okay to use cows' blood? And for all of you who got Hemopure, were you told that the risk was higher than what you would normally get? Did you know that you were participating in a clinical trial?

Of course I understand the 'informed consent' and LAR consent...but, really, what were you told about Hemopure?

And here is another thing. Study design. A great deal of the discussion in the FDA document was about study design. In addition to the JW group being an ideal control group in that they don't have a RESUS level, the same model offers drawbacks. As the one speaker I quoted above pointed out, such a study does not generalize to the larger population. The fact that a JW refuses a resusitation by alternative, already proven means (blood transfusion) makes them a poor model for predicting outcomes in other patients. Adding another arm to an internal JW clinical trial, one that would mimic external factors better, would make the trial far more benefical. The WTS needed to refine their blood doctrine just a little bit - they needed one more 'arm' to the studies.

And that happened. JWs are now given the option to sign a 'letter of understanding' for their children. I am not sure if they have that option on all the cards now.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/244052/1/Blood-transfusion-Letter-of-Understanding

The doctrine changed in response to the demands of medical research.

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

but facilitating clinical trials will help in the development of a drug which will save those same people. Being part of a clinical trial is not a bad thing.

Yup, you nailed it. That is the paradox. Or dilemna. And it is a moral question that is debated and exploited all the time.

In this case, however, I am yet to be convinced that was what was going on.

Remember what the one speaker said - the only ones who would really benefit from a Hemopure trial using only JWs were those with a commercial interest in the product.

Biotech companies pay extremely well for recruiters and clinical trial subjects - and they are always on the lookout for compassionate care cases - it is how a lot of products make it to market. The hand and glove fit of pharma and biotech companies with the WTS is evident, especially when the FDA document confirms it.

Now, you may believe that the WTS is doing the one thing everybody says the WTS doesn't do - maybe everybody has really missed the point and all their 'charity work' is done with the HLCs. But, I think we would have heard about it if that were true. It is far more likely that the 'network' of bloodless centers and 'network' of HLC recruiters, receive 'compensation' for their participation in clinical trials and recommendations for 'compassionate use' of drugs not yet approved by the FDA.

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

Participants openly discuss how the JW patient population has been and can be useful in analyzing various novel hematological strategies and products against current treatment options when a current treatment option is not considered optional by that patient population.

Yes, and that is exactly why this document is so valuable. The participants are named (and hence have a historical bio) and not only that, the document is a transcript - we get a word for word account - and sometimes it even has inflections - of who the players were in the game of artifical blood at the time this was recorded in 2008 and we are given a glimpse into the role of the Watchtower Society and their HLC, who emerge as significant players in this high stakes blood game.

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

I knew i was getting into a lot of work when I posted the link to the FDA document.

Crazyguy, you asked for pages where the JWs are mentioned. this following quote(s) come from near the end of the document...I have somehow ended up with more than one copy and the one I took this from is over 600 pages long...so I don't know exactly which page it is from.

This is following many pages of opinion on safety, efficacy, compassionae use, study design, etc...and the opinions are divided - some actively support the WTS supplying the control group and compassionate use subjects. The following speaker gives his rationale for using artifical blood for the JW community ("a control that's not getting anything" means...JWs) - he thinks it would be good to at least know if artifical blood will work:

Mr. Carson:

So you’ve just described the first study. Okay, but the first study is to have a control that’s not getting anything. And if you can’t show it works there, then you wouldn’t go and do another study. So it’s a proof of concept, and it would benefit that small group of people and there are more and more people, you know, who are not from a religious point of view, but have other reasons why they would prefer not to have blood.

So I think, to know that we - - you know, we haven’t - - you know, there’s no trial on red cells that shows that it works, okay, our control group, there’s no trial in red cells against the placebo that shows that it works, and there’s no trial with these drugs that shows that it improves outcome.

I think you know, I don’t know what the regulatory part of this thing is, but it sure would contribute to the field to know that, you know, they actually do what we want them to do and they might save some lives. That - I think has value and whether or not it gets to the point whether it’s widely used or not and approved, that’s not – I think that’s a simple question.

This is responded to by the next speaker:

Mr Emmanuel:

I mean I agree with you, it’s a concept and from that standpoint it would be valuable, but it would only be commercial - - it would only interest the commercial companies in this room if there was a widespread off-label use. There is no market and no one would sink a dime into it if the market were Jehovah’s Witnesses.

Only commercial benefits.

Yes.

And the Watchtower Society was in the thick of it - providing those so valuable research subjects to get Hemopure on the market.

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

they were desperately looking for a way to reverse out of their murderous Blood policy.

Actually, their 'murderous blood policy' was a benefit in this situation. It is that policy that makes for the control group and also creates a 'compassionate' group that speeds the process of approval up. Compassionate use serves a distinct purpose for the pharma companies, in addition to being used for 'patients who are going to die anyways'. If the blood ban was given up, there would no longer be a pressing 'need' to get some products on the market. Compassionate use is often the toehold that is needed by some companies.

I had said earlier that the WTS approved Hemopure in 2000 but there is evidence in the literature that JWs were being given Hemopure before the 'official approval'. The medical literature, at least those studies and trials which have made it to publication, has examples of procedures being done on JW patients long before the Society gave approval on the procedures.

"Volume expanders had been developed back in the 60s by using JW subjects in research facillitated by the Army. (yes...I can back that up...I have the study that shows that...)"

I wouldn't mind seeing that.

The study can be found in this book here:

The book was published by the Watchtower Society and placed with medical professionals across Canada. I don't know if it was used in any other country.

I don't know if you can access this study digitally, but a hard copy would certainly be found in the Society's library.

Electrolyte Solution in Surgical Patients Refusing Transfusion

Seymour Gollub, PhD, MD; Robert Svigals, MD; Charles P. Bailey, MD; Teruo Hirose, MD; and Clara Schaefer
(from St. Barnabas Hospital, Bronx, NY)

Originally published in The Journal of American Medical Association, March 29, 1971, Vol. 215, no. 13

Abstract:

Major blood loss in 13 surgical patients was treated by infusion of crystalloid solution alone, supplemented by colloid plasma expander when necessary. Neither whole blood nor any of its components or fractions was employed at any time. For losses of 21% to 66% of blood volume, Ringer’s solution administered in three to five times the volume of blood loss, produced significant intravascular fluid increments equaling one fifth to three fifths of the shed blood. Colloid solutions were required to sustain blood volumes or blood pressure for patients with blood losses in excess of 1,200 ml, otherwise clinically significant edema was manifested. One week after surgery, blood volumes averaged 90% of original values. The death rate was three thirteenths. The average hospital stay was prolonged 3.4 days.

And this small note just prior to the reference list at the end of the article:

This investigation was supported by the John A. Hartford Foundation and aided by the US Army Surgical Research and Development Command.

about the study:

This communication presents a body of clinical experience with exclusive use of crystalloid solution as alternate therapy to blood transfusion in cases of high-trauma surgery with major blood loss. Though it describes, in many ways, extremes of clinical practice, it may contribute to a clearer understanding of results of nonhemic fluid resuscitation, and help to define safe limits of its employment.

The subjects:

Thirteen consecutively studied cases of a group of surgical patients subjected to a wide range of traumatice procedures are presented. All sustained major blood loss. None received blood or any blood fraction at any time. All were members of the Jehovah’s Witness faith.

I have the entire study scanned, if you are interested. But the quality isn't great.

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

Crazyguy, I think that what is important to keep in mind concerning this FDA document, is that the WTS gave their approval for Hemopure in 2000.

This FDA discussion occurred 8 years later - 8 years of JWs getting Hemopure and the product was still in clinical trials. The WTS 'approval' of Hemopure was put in place to facillitate clinical trials, not to save the lives of those they had told to refuse blood transfusions.

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

Hemopure? Correct me please; isnt this a derivative or bovine blood?

Yes, Hemopure is a bovine derived hemoglobin substitute. It is made from cow's blood.

This article is over 120 pages can you list the pages that deal with the JW's and also back up your statement, thanks

Actually, it is over 300 pages long. If you use the search function you can find all the place that Jehovah's Witnesses are mentioned in the document.

But - for a very condensed version of the document, what is happening is that a number of interested and concerned parties got together to talk about the safety and efficiacy of artifical blood and how to proceed with research into it. A meta-analysis of available data (because many of the trials never did submit results - notably, Hemopure was one of the biggest trangressors of not turning in data to the FDA) revealed this:

We conclude, based on analysis of the available data from clinical trials, hemoglobin=based blood substitutes are associated with a significant risk of death and myocardial infarction.

They discuss the safety issues - some say that they can fix the problems with the artifical blood that is causing the higher rates of death and heart attacks - and they discuss what kind of study design is most valid and would have the most benefit. Guniea pigs, monkeys and dogs are discussed as to why or why not they would be the way to proceed with subjects for trials. And, they discuss, several times, whether or not the JWs would be suitable for a sample group.

pg 279 - Dr. Vlahake from Harvard makes this comment:

I wouldn’t necessarily give up on the Jehovah’s Witness population and just share with you a couple of insights in having managed a number of those patients over the 22 years I have been in the specialty our group along with our colleagues in cardiac anesthesia have had a number of these people referred through their own network. This is for those of you who have not had the opportunity to work with Jehovah’s Witness patients. They have a medical liaison network in every city in the US and the headquarters in the religion is the Watchtower Society in Brooklyn. And we have had the senior members of that organization come to our administration and there have been meetings about creating a referral relationship, and the patients who are willing to travel.

And so you could conceivably design a surgical trial and you could pick a handful of surgical specialties where there is a reasonable likelihood of needing a transfusion, and design it regionally at several major centers in the US, engage the Church and the medical liaison people that are part of the Church and to reach out into the community to bring those patients into the system, and then carefully design the clinical trial and then even potentially have a crossover option if it comes down to life-threatening anemia which we’re going to encounter in some of those patients you start to do larger and larger surgeries.

There are other places in the document that refers to the JWs. The arguments are a bit complicated and there is much to be said in the analysis of the text, including who was involved in the discussion and their interests and prior history with the Watchtower, but, what emerges is that the WTS was on the side of Biopure in the discussion - in spite of the very real concerns with safety and efficiacy, the WTS wanted to proceed with trials in the JW population.

What is important to remember in all of this, is that Hemopure would be being tested against the treatment currently done on JWs - the use of volume expanders, not oxygen carriers - and that the Hemopure to that point did not perform as well as current treatment. Volume expanders had been developed back in the 60s by using JW subjects in research facillitated by the Army. (yes...I can back that up...I have the study that shows that...)

As far as backing up my statements goes...the document I linked to does that - I apologize for the density of it - I understand that it is a difficult read.

Atlantis - you are most welcome.

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

How would a current jw spin this? --"jw's do not serve in the US Military but we ALL do alternative service....."? or would they be horrified?

I don't know, Carla, but maybe somene should ask them how they feel about their contribution to what they have been told to hate - military service. No, they don't wear a uniform, and they don't salute the flag...but I wonder if they get the Stars and Stripes draped over their body on the way to the morgue after having plastic blood pumped into their veins. Soldiers get resusitated on the battlefield - JWs don't even get that.

And here is another great irony: if you do any research into the current state of the artificial blood industry, one of the huge selling points is that artifical blood can be used as a long shelf life emergency response to disaster situations instead of relying on live blood donors. I will have to look for the quote, but I think I even read an account of a Jehovah's witness being saved by artifical blood during the 9/11 disaster as a selling point for moving artifical blood research along.

So, here we have, on one hand, a group of people who are being told that 'God' is going to destroy all those bad people...yet the very same ones who are telling them that are using them for lab rats to develop technology to help all those bad people to survive 'armageddon'.

Now that, is one of the biggest deceptions I have encountered in a long time.

Tell me, how would you spin this to a person who has an active noblood card in their pocket?

45

Blood, the US Army, the US Navy and the Watchtower Society

by OrphanCrow in

the watchtower society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology.

the wts deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology.

it has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed jws in the wake of the societys quest for everlasting life here on earth.. .

OrphanCrow

The Watchtower Society blood doctrine is intricately linked to clinical trials in blood technology. The WTS deliberately changes and manipulates the blood doctrine in order to fill the requirements for medical testing in the field of blood technology. It has been happening since the start of the blood ban and has continued for the last 70 years, leaving untold numbers of dead and maimed JWs in the wake of the Society’s quest for ‘everlasting life here on earth’.

The search for the Holy Grail of the blood industry, artificial blood, is one that the Watchtower Society is heavily involved in.

In 2000, when the Society announced their approval of Hemopure, their approval pre-dated the FDA approval for general use. The Society’s approval was put in place to satisfy the demands of clinical trials. The Society, along with its Hospital Liaison Committee, needed to fill their promise of providing lab rats for military research and for the promotion of Biopure blood substitutes. In 2000, Hemopure was being tested for safety and efficacy and it was the JWs who were offered up as lab rats to try it out – the Society’s approval was just that – they approved a sample group for medical research.

In 2008, after a meta-analysis of the trials for Hemopure and other blood substitutes revealed the high rate of death and side effects, the FDA was involved in evaluating whether or not the clinical trials would proceed. They had stopped clinical trials because of high mortality rates in the subjects that had been given blood substitutes and the FDA had a panel of experts gathered to discuss the pros and cons of allowing artificial blood research to proceed.

The following document reveals the complicity of the Watchtower Society in the push to proceed forward with a blood product that had questionable safety. The Watchtower Society was involved in the FDA hearing because they were offering up the JWs as a control group for the US military to continue the trials they had already been involved in.

The Watchtower Society is giving its 'politically neutral' followers to the US military – instead of serving in uniform, the JWs get to serve their country in a different way – they can die as lab rats. And the reason the US Army and Navy want them for a control group? Well, Army medical personnel have to abide by the RESUS model – they have to resort to proven methods of resuscitation if the patient is on the verge of dying. In other words, if an Army doctor uses artificial blood on a patient, and they are dying, if real blood is available, they have to resort to using it. But, with a JW patient, they can continue to use the artificial blood until they die. Why this is important to the military is that it gives them a ‘base-line’ measurement – something that is impossible with any other group except the JWs.

The Watchtower Society is, and has been for 70 years, using the blood doctrine to create a control group for medical research. And, they are in bed with the US Department of Defense in doing so. The JWs are being used for military purposes, with the full knowledge and cooperation of the Watchtower Society.

This is a long document, over 300 pages.

For your reading pleasure:

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/biologicsbloodvaccines/newsevents/workshopsmeetingsconferences/ucm133812.pdf

28

Night and Day from GB to Writing committee? Someone explain?

by thedepressedsoul in

im sure by now most of you are familiar with anthony morris talk from this weekend.

im even seeing memes posted all over instagram from jw mocking it.. here is my question, why are the things written so different from how the gb members, like anthony morris are?

i know the gb dont actually write the stuff but i was under the impression that they come up with the spiritual light pass if off to the writing committee and they put it in the publications.

OrphanCrow

"Jehovah does NOT understand the inactive and indeed finds their hands covered in blood."

Inactive ones or dead ones?

Whose hands are covered in blood?