LoveUniHateExams

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Posts by LoveUniHateExams

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  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  If Scottish people want another referendum in ten years, that’s democracy. If they don’t want another referendum for another hundred years—or more—again, that’s democracy. It’s up to politicians to make the argument for their position, and it’s up to the electorate who they vote for - what you don't mention, in fact what you never mention, is the following three points ...

  1. The Scottish electorate doesn't exist in a vacuum. They can't just decide exactly when to have a second referendum. For starters, the UK must complete its leaving of the EU before anything is even considered.

  2. The result of the first IndyRef must be respected. Sturgeon clamouring already for a second isn't respecting the first result and therefore isn't democracy.

  3. This point's kinda related to the first and second points: Scottish citizens are also UK citizens. You and Sturgeon continue to think and speak as if Scotland is already an independent country. It's not. Sturgeon said the recent Tory victory was a victory for England. This is very sneaky of her. For starters, the Tories aren't an English party - Tory seats won in Wales and Scotland helped put Boris Johnson back in power. The SNP are a nationalist party, however. Less than 1.3 million Scots voted for them in the recent GE. Really, they and their supporters should have little if any influence re a second IndyRef.

  Edit: The Tories seem to think that, having argued against a referendum, and lost the election in Scotland, their policy should prevail anyway. That’s pure contempt for democracy. Their next manifesto should say: we don’t give a damn how you vote, we’ll decide what happen in Scotland regardless - hahaha! The projection from you and the SNP is priceless.
  
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  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  Sturgeon and other supporters of independence will always support independence and argue in favour of it - but if she loses two IndyRefs in a row, it's game over ... surely ...

  If she loses a second time, will you and Sturgeon accept it
  

  That misunderstands how this works - but a second defeat - two in a row - must end Sturgeon's dreams of independence, at least for a generation or two. The only other way is to keep re-running the referendum until the 'correct' answer is given. And that isn't democracy.

  Sturgeon hasn't really accepted or respected the first IndyRef result.
  

  The idea of a third referendum is questionable anyway, because I am sure Scotland will vote for independence at the next opportunity - this is probably what Sturgeon thinks, too ... like she thought Scotland would vote leave in the first IndyRef.

  But back to what isn't being considered: if Scotland votes Remain in the UK again, any reasonable person would throw in the towel.

  ("The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" - Albert Einstein, I think.)

  In Quebec they had two referendums on sovereignty and so far the people of Quebec have not wanted another referendum. If they ever want another referendum they should be allowed to have it, but there doesn’t seem to be support for it - I think the most important thing for the people of Quebec is to honour the results of the previous referendums.

  ^^^ Something in there for you and Sturgeon to learn, I think ...

  It is up to voters to decide when, if ever, another referendum should take place - you keep persisting in this fantasy. And as long as you do, I'll keep correcting you: it's up to Boris Johnson, as PM of the UK, when to allow a 2nd IndyRef for Scotland.

  You keep forgetting that you, SBF, are a UK citizen. And Boris is UK PM. Therefore, Boris Johnson is your Prime Minister, whether you like it or not.

  Edit: and here's another thing to consider - suppose Leave wins IndyRef 2 and Sturgeon is obviously pleased with the result. Does it become best of three, i.e. should there be a decider? Or does Sturgeon say 'I've got the result I always wanted - that's it'?
  
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  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  One step at a time - exactly, SBF, exactly.

  First Brexit must be started and completed. The whole of the UK must leave the EU.

  Then, and only then, Sturgeon gets to hold her second IndyRef.

  If she loses a second time, will you and Sturgeon accept it? (serious question)
  
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  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  
  
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  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  ADDENDUM:

  majority of the UK people voted for parties supporting either Remain or second referendum

  Q: why are you lumping Remain and Second Referendum together?!

  A: intellectual dishonesty.

  Go and add up the number of votes for: parties with Brexit on their manifesto; parties with Second Referendum on their manifesto; and parties with Remain on their manifesto. Which has the most votes, Brexit, 2nd Referendum or Remain?

  If you want to make it about Brexit vs Remain, you must not include votes for Labour as votes for Remain.

  F**k me, the cheek of some people! XD
  
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  11

  Will Brexiteers be happy with Phase 2 of Brexit?

  by The Fall Guy in

  1. social
  2. current

  "brussels plans to insist that in order to get that "quick and dirty" deal, the prime minister would have to sign up to eu conditions: alignment with eu environmental, state aid and tax regulations for example.

  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50777995.

  would such a deal represent what they thought they were voting for in the referendum?.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  stillMS - yes, the EU is a political entity that we never voted to join. We voted to join a trading bloc called the EEC in 1975. Then that was replaced with the EU in the mid 90s. We, the voters, weren't consulted.

  Also, in the current situation, EU law holds sway over UK law - not good. Leaving the UK would mean that the EU courts will not interfere in how the UK governs itself.

  Are you from the US, stillMS?

  Imagine there's a trading bloc between the US, Canada, Mexico, and other countries of the Americas.

  You guys have a referendum to join this trading bloc - sounds good, doesn't it.

  But twenty years after you voted to join, the trading bloc disappears and is replaced with a political union. Let's call it the AU - the American Union.

  Now, AU courts have the power to overrule US judges. Not nice, is it? You would end up with Costa Rican judges telling Yanks how to live their lives. I'm pretty certain that if this kinda scenario happened, Yanks would go nuts.

  And there's more: two EU projects that the UK wisely opted out of were the single currency (Euro) and the Schengen Zone.

  The Euro has been a disaster - just look at the state of Greece. Tony Blair wanted us to join the Euro but was talked out of it by Gordon Brown (thank God). Pro-Euro supporters like Blair and Nick Cable have never acknowledged that it has been a disaster and that they were wrong to try and push it onto us.

  The Schengen Zone (an area of EU countries where EU citizens can move freely without presenting their passports) has been exploited by illegal immigrants, terrorists and other undesirables.

  Calais in France is separated from the UK by the English Channel. It has had serious problems over the past few years with plenty of migrants, who are looking to get to the UK. Some claim to be refugees. How the hell can you have refugees leaving France? These people aren't being persecuted by France, right?

  Some migrants literally go at lorry drivers with knives or other weapons, to get illegal entry to the UK.
  

  They just think the UK is a soft touch and would like to live here. Hopefully, Boris Johnson will get us the hell out and sort out these and related issues.

  A few years ago, Angela Merkel just decided to let in millions of migrants from Syria. They could be ordinary families, refugees, terrorists, anyone. She just let them in to Germany and then started moaning that other countries weren't taking their share!

  The Syrian immigrants - legal and illegal - were presented with shiny new German/EU passports. That now meant they could move to any EU country they wanted. The UK wants to regain control of its own borders.

  Leaving the EU will help us in this regard. There will be migration from non-EU countries to sort out, too, but the Conservatives seem to be serious in tackling these issues.
  
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  12

  Syrian conflict

  by Holden Caufield in

  1. social
  2. current

  i feel that assad even though he is bad is a better alternative then islamic extremist taking power.

  what do you think?.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  Bashar al-Assad is a tyrant who kidnaps, abuses and massacres his own people so it's understandable that many Syrians want him gone.

  They went about it the wrong way, or it started out well and then turned bad as the Islamist Head-choppers became prominent.

  And what about the Kurds? They've fought bravely to gain some kind of independence. It would be an absolute travesty if they were to lose that - either to al-Assad or to the Turkey-backed Islamist groups. Either way it would be terrible for them.
  
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  38

  FlyingHighNow

  by Ex-Witless in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello forum.

  my aunt, flyinghighnow, has passed away.

  i don't know if you remember her, but she was a long time member.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  That's very sad to hear.

  Please accept my condolences.

  RIP Flying High Now.
  
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  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  @Slim: the Scottish people don't get to decide when to have IndyRef 2.

  Boris Johnson gets to decide that - he's Prime Minister of the UK and has a large majority.
  
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  109

  Proportional Representation vs Electoral Collages

  by Simon in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the craziness of first-past-the-post elections .... we'll no doubt have to now live through the scotts demanding another referendum, because we may take their lands, but we will never take their freedom!

  and so they want to be free of the uk, where they have a disproportionate influence in parliament, and be a little dot that's part of the eu.

  yup, freedom.. but anyway, as it stands right now they have 48 seats after getting 1.2m votes.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  The SNP pretending that they are already independent of the UK that Scotland voted to remain in back in 2014 is where the lack of respect for democracy lies.

  ^^^ This.