LoveUniHateExams

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Posts by LoveUniHateExams

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  77

  What's next?

  by lastmanstanding in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what's next for the world?

  a year ago i edited a map of the world to include some big arrows to tell the story of what is to come.

  and i shared that map with various friends.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  What's next for the world? - China will invade Taiwan at some point.

  And then we'll really be in a world of shit.
  
  
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  13

  Confirmation that religion is dying.

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is from a site called "atheist republic" :.

  " the phenomenon of "nones" — individuals who claim no religious affiliation — is rapidly reshaping america's religious landscape.

  recent surveys by the associated press-norc center for public affairs research indicate that 30% of u.s. adults identify as nonreligious.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  I've known a couple of people yearning for 'Christian values' in a reaction against the so called 'woke' agenda - yes, quite a lot of people feel this way.

  *I sometimes do.

  Whether or not they will actually join organised religion or even believe in God is difficult to say ...

  *When I see drag queens half-naked in schools I sometimes want to ask Jehovah to give us another flood
  
  
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  13

  Confirmation that religion is dying.

  by Phizzy in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is from a site called "atheist republic" :.

  " the phenomenon of "nones" — individuals who claim no religious affiliation — is rapidly reshaping america's religious landscape.

  recent surveys by the associated press-norc center for public affairs research indicate that 30% of u.s. adults identify as nonreligious.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  I echo what Jan said.

  Religion is declining to some degree in the west.

  But it's on the rise elsewhere, including among British Muslims.

  (Islam is the fastest growing religion in the UK.)

  Look at Hamas fighters and supporters - like ISIS nutjobs, they believe that jihad against innocent Israeli citizens is God's work.

  Saudi Arabia and Iran have Sharia incorporated into their laws, too.
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  10

  Whatever happened to JW paedo Michael Porter?

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i remember reading about this guy in a national newspaper in 2010 after he had had his trial for child sex abuse.

  porter avoided prison, despite being guilty of some acts child abuse.. the local elders defended him and were on his side and didn't df him, from what i remember.

  then after an outcry porter was was df'd, and i think sent to prison.. anyone up-to-date on this?.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  I remember reading about this guy in a national newspaper in 2010 after he had had his trial for child sex abuse.

  Porter avoided prison, despite being guilty of some acts child abuse.

  The local elders defended him and were on his side and didn't DF him, from what I remember. Then after an outcry Porter was was DF'd, and I think sent to prison.

  Anyone up-to-date on this?

  Is he still in prison (where I believe he should remain for many years to come!), or is he back out in the community, living life as an active JW?
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  34

  When did you see realise James Lloyd Evans was a wrongun?

  by usualusername1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i remember him on this site when he was called cedars and had jw survey.. straightaway i noticed he could not accept suggestions.. the time i knew he was dangerous was when his group aawa added people to their fb group without their permission and were outed.. he refused to close the fb page (whilst celebrating 1300 members joining in a few days).

  one member complained and was subsequently disfellowshipped, which could easily have been avoided.. three week's after launching, the fb page was closed down.

  from that moment i knew james lloyd evans was dangerous.. when did you realise he not good?.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  I used to be a lurker before I joined and started posting, and I remember reading threads with posts by John Cedars.

  My first impressions of him were that he was articulate and knowledgeable on JW issues. I still think this to some degree today.

  Then, I started to notice how he responded to people who disagreed with his opinions or who tried to post counter-arguments. He was pretty catty in response. I didn't know John Cedars was Lloyd Evans for some time.

  I guess I properly realised he was a wrong un when he left the forum over the fallout from the AAWA and the potential outing of its supporters.

  How he has reacted and dealt with the current sex workers issue is entirely consistent with the man's character.

  There are plenty of Lloyd Evanses out in the world and there's nothing we can do about it.
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  125

  Mandated Shunning is a Crime

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

  shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

  mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  how you treat people who don't want to follow your rules or don't agree with them is a whole other story - I agree it's important how people who leave should be treated, and shunning is bad.

  But is legislation the best answer?

  Isn't there a better way of dealing with the problem?
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  125

  Mandated Shunning is a Crime

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

  shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

  mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  As far as making a minor child leave home because they don’t want the JW religion, I know of two instances that happened years ago.. Surely, this should be illegal - I think it already is. Parents cannot legally throw out their child.

  But does this mean we should criminalise mandatory shunning?

  And what's the best way to tackle top-down shunning?
  
  
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  125

  Mandated Shunning is a Crime

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

  shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

  mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  What's the objective, generic principle applied here that allows you to discriminate based on religion?

  The WT has a group rule - no associating with former members. They aren't pulling it out of their ass (even though you think so). They cite scripture. You can object: "They have that scripture wrong!" But that's the point - people believe all sort of interpretations of everything.

  Why is this case (shunning) different, IN PRINCIPLE, than, punishing based on, say, thinking abortion is wrong? Why can't your law be used, as precedent, to take away the charitable status of any organization the current culture (which changes constantly!) deems as hurtful? - these are all good points.

  There's no objective, generic principle that allows me to single out religions.

  But, because religious groups' mandatory shunning causes problems, I believe governments can put pressure on them by saying that they'll only continue charity status if the cults drop mandatory shunning.

  You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

  That kinda thing.

  
  
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  125

  Mandated Shunning is a Crime

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

  shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

  mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  Hit them where it hurts , in their pockets - yes, that's the threat if cults don't comply. They would then lose their charity status and stop being funded. But that is different to criminalising mandatory shunning, which is something Lee Marsh has brought up.
  
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  125

  Mandated Shunning is a Crime

  by Lee Marsh in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  mandated shunning is on the rise around the world with devastating effects on millions of people.

  shunning that is mandated by organized groups to its members is a form of both physical and psychological violence against those people being shunned and cut off from their family and life-long relationships.

  mandated shunning means that the shunning is ordered from the top down.

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  LoveUniHateExams

  This has nothing to do with individuals who shun people. Nothing. It has to do with religions, groups and others that practice Mandated Shunning - yes, I realise this now. I didn't read thru your post properly.

  Nevertheless, even if governments try to legislate only mandatory shunning, it is still going to be difficult to put it in law and choose the right wording.

  If individual shunning is ok, why can't groups have rules on mandatory shunning (written or unwritten) as part of their beliefs?

  It also seems to be a poor choice of time for the authorities to run this legislation thru their respective parliaments. And it seems to be a poor choice of time for law enforcement to spend time on investigations into organisations practicing mandatory shunning. Why? - well because their are enough serious crimes for the authorities to legislate against and tackle. The authorities should devote their energies to these first.

  I live in the UK. Over here, there have been cases of people reporting crimes such as theft to the police, with the police saying that there is nothing they can do. It would be a bit weird that, while the police said there's nothing they can do about theft, they then spend time and resources questioning cult leaders under oath about whether mandatory shunning is part of their rules. And then taking them to court if the cult leaders refuse to comply (!).

  Let's say that this goes ahead and mandatory shunning is made illegal, and high-control groups such as the JWs comply. So now shunning is a conscience matter, i.e. it's now individual shunning. That's what the JWs would do. Have nothing currently in print about it, but the higher-ups would have discreet chats with rank and file as necessary. How could authorities stop this? Because it would happen. Shunning would be similar to how the org goes about practicing theocratic warfare.

  There is another way to deal with mandatory shunning, besides falling back on legislation.

  How about this: government threatens to take away Watchtower's charity status if they continue with the mandatory shunning.

  Don't get me wrong, shunning in general and mandatory shunning cause lots of problems.