Posts by opusdei1972

5

How many Isaiah's prophecies of chapter 19 were fulfilled?

by opusdei1972 in

i have read the chapter 19 of isaiah, which scholars of high criticism believe to be authentic, of isaiah himself.

in this chapter there are more than one prophecy for egypt.

my question is, how many of them you found fullfilled and unfulfilled?....

opusdei1972

I have read the chapter 19 of Isaiah, which scholars of high criticism believe to be authentic, of Isaiah himself. In this chapter there are more than one prophecy for Egypt. My question is, how many of them you found fullfilled and unfulfilled?.... for instance, I have read that some people affirm that verse 16 has already been fulfilled because Israel is currently militarily much greater than Egypt. Ok, but there are other prophecies that I found incredible. ...well, I invite you to read the chapter 19 here :

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isa%C3%ADas+19&version=NIVUK

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

opusdei1972

1.There was a Jesus

2.He did some amazing things and inspired followers who didn't know what to make of him.

3.He gave specific instruction which weren't clearly understood.

4.When he was put to death there was a huge shakeup

5.Many claimed to see him and talk to him AFTER he died.

Yes,...I am following the line of Raymond Brown (a scholar Catholic priest) and Antonio Piñero (a spanish liberal and secular scholar), and some of Bart Ehrman. They agree that there is a little core of true facts in the four Gospels, but much of them are tampered stories. So, to sumarize, Jesus was a religious Jew who met John the Baptist, and did amazing things, as some modern people, but his crucifixion was unexpected even by him. Then, the disciples tried to justify these facts by quoting and reconfiguring passages of the Old Testament. This led to an interesting social phenomenom, because it initialy created a religious comunity with social protection without racial discrimination (Pauline christianity), someting that worked well in the oppressive world of that time.

18

Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre

by opusdei1972 in

as we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.

17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.

19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.

opusdei1972

As I see, the tablet (BM33041) does not say where the battle was, and as I said, at worse, Amasis lost the battle and went back to Egypt. But as the many records of the activity of the Amasis' reign reveal, "the land of Egypt" (read Ezekiel 29:20) was not given to Nebuchadnezzar nor to his sucessor. Furthermore, the 40 years of desolation of the land and of the egyptian exodus, were intended to be taken literally:

13 Further, thus says the Lord God : At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the peoples among whom they were scattered; 14 and I will restore the fortunes of Egypt, and bring them back to the land of Pathros, the land of their origin; and there they shall be a lowly kingdom. (Ezekiel 29:13-14)

otherwise, the above words would not make sense.

18

Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre

by opusdei1972 in

as we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.

17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.

19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.

opusdei1972

Perry: The Babylonians led by Nebuchadnezzar defeated the Egyptians but did not conquer Egypt. The refererence quoted by Wikipedia is from the book "Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon" (Wiseman, 1983). I did not get that book, but I would like to read in it what is the proof for that assertion. As far as I know there is no such a proof. Nebuchadnezzar, as a king, fought against two egyptian kings, namely, Hophra (589 - 570 BCE) and Amasis II (570-526 BCE). Before Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem in 587 BCE, Hophra went against him to help the king of Judah, Zedekiah. Hophra and his army were defeated by Nebuchadnezzar but not conquered by him, because Hophra could went back to Egypt as Jeremiah said:

5 Pharaoh’s army had marched out of Egypt, and when the Babylonians who were besieging Jerusalem heard the report about them, they withdrew from Jerusalem. 6 Then the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet: 7 “This is what the Lord , the God of Israel, says: Tell the king of Judah, who sent you to inquire of me, ‘Pharaoh’s army, which has marched out to support you, will go back to its own land, to Egypt. 8 Then the Babylonians will return and attack this city; they will capture it and burn it down.’ (Jeremiah 37:5-8)

Then, Amasis II overthrew Hophra and became king of Egypt, so Hophra had to flee to other country. Then Hophra got the help of Babylon to recover his reign but he was killed by Amasis' army in 567 BCE. Also, there is a babylonian tablet (BM33041) of the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar, which seems to be 568 BCE, where it is narrated the battle between Amasis and Nebuchadnezzar. Nevertheless, due to the damage of some portions of the tablet we can't know for sure the result. At worse, Amasis lost the battle and went back to Egypt, but Nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the land of Egypt, because Amasis continued reigning until 526 BCE, whereas Nebuchadnezzar died in 562 BCE, six years after that battle. So, the land of Egypt was not desolated by Nebuchadnezzar, nor the 40 years could be fulfilled during Nebuchadnezzar reign.

18

Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre

by opusdei1972 in

as we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.

17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.

19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.

opusdei1972

As Bart Belteshassur pointed out, Ezekiel proclaimed that Egypt would be desolated for 40 years:

11 Neither man nor livestock will pass through it on foot, and it will not be inhabited for 40 years. 12 I will make the land of Egypt the most desolate of lands, and its cities will be the most desolate of cities for 40 years; and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations and disperse them among the lands.” 13 “‘For this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “After 40 years I will gather back the Egyptians from the peoples where they were scattered; (Ezekiel 29:11-13)

However, it never happened. But the Watchtower Society, the champion of fraud and deception, gives the following misleading defense:

At Ezekiel 29:1-16 a desolation of Egypt is foretold, due to last 40 years. This may have come after Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of Egypt . While some commentaries refer to the reign of Amasis (Ahmose) II, the successor of Hophra, as exceedingly prosperous during more than 40 years, they do so primarily on the testimony of Herodotus, who visited Egypt over a hundred years later. But as the Encyclopædia Britannica (1959, Vol. 8, p. 62) comments on Herodotus’ history of this period (the “Saitic Period”): “His statements prove not entirely reliable when they can be checked by the scanty native evidence.” The Bible Commentary by F. C. Cook, after noting that Herodotus even fails to mention Nebuchadnezzar’s attack on Egypt , says: “It is notorious that Herodotus, while he faithfully recorded all that he heard and saw in Egypt , was indebted for his information on past history to the Egyptian priests, whose tales he adopted with blind credulity. . . . The whole story [by Herodotus] of Apries [Hophra] and Amasis is mixed with so much that is inconsistent and legendary that we may very well hesitate to adopt it as authentic history. It is by no means strange that the priests should endeavour to disguise the national dishonour of having been subjected to a foreign yoke.” (Note B., p. 132) Hence, while secular history provides no clear evidence of the prophecy’s fulfillment, we may be confident of the accuracy of the Bible record. (Insight, Egypt, pp. 686-699)

So, though the Society tries to undermine Herodotus' reliability, Leolaia provided us all the records found of Amasis' reign, which is an overwhelming proof that Nebuchadnezzar could not desolate Egypt:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/186163/4/Ezekiel-29-12-Prophecy-of-the-Desolation-of-Egypt-for-40-years#.U_pJa9bYXFY

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Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre

by opusdei1972 in

as we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.

17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.

19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.

opusdei1972

Egypt was never desolated for 40 years. This is an overwhelming proof that he who inspired Ezekiel's prophecies was deceiving him.

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

opusdei1972

I recomend this website for those who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible. The following link will open your mind if you want to think:

http://www.theskepticalreview.com/mainmenu.html

17

DO JW's do a FAIR job of SAVING people--or--is the premise ridiculous?

by Terry in

figures don't lie...but liars figure!.

the message for those babies who are now in their 30's and 40's is that "we warned your parents about a date that meant nothing!".

how does that wash credibility-wise?.

opusdei1972

However, YHWH can save only his witnesses though they can't preach to every man. YHWH likes genocide, he did it with amalekites and madianites, and so on.

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

opusdei1972

Here is one of the many contradictions in the Bible:

"The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin." (Deuteronomy 24:16)

"Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them (idols), nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me." (Exodus 20:5)

18

Misleading explanation for the fulfillment of the Prophecy against Tyre

by opusdei1972 in

as we know, nebuchadnezzar could not conquer the island of tyre, so he could not fulfill what was predicted in ezekiel chapter 26. many years later, ezekiel admitted that the prediction failed in chapter 29:.

17 and it came to pass in the twenty-seventh year, in the first month, on the first day of the month, that the word of the lord came to me, saying, 18 son of man, nebuchadnezzar king of babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from tyre, for the labor which they expended on it.

19 therefore thus says the lord god: surely i will give the land of egypt to nebuchadnezzar king of babylon; he shall take away her wealth, carry off her spoil, and remove her pillage; and that will be the wages for his army.

opusdei1972

Perry: English is not my native language, but I am trying to understand what you meant. I knew that Tyre was an Island with lesser cities called "daughters in the land". So the main material richness was in the Island, as Ezekiel said:

Your wealth, merchandise and wares,

your mariners, sailors and shipwrights,
your merchants and all your soldiers,
and everyone else on board
will sink into the heart of the sea
on the day of your shipwreck.

(Ezekiel 27:27)

Let us see, here are portions of the NIV translation of Ezekiel 26:

7 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: From the north I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, king of kings, with horses and chariots, with horsemen and a great army. 8 He will ravage your settlements on the mainland with the sword; he will set up siege works against you, build a ramp up to your walls and raise his shields against you. 9 He will direct the blows of his battering rams against your walls and demolish your towers with his weapons. 10 His horses will be so many that they will cover you with dust. Your walls will tremble at the noise of the warhorses, wagons and chariots when he enters your gates as men enter a city whose walls have been broken through. 11 The hooves of his horses will trample all your streets; he will kill your people with the sword, and your strong pillars will fall to the ground. 12 THEY will plunder your wealth and loot your merchandise; they will break down your walls and demolish your fine houses and throw your stones, timber and rubble into the sea.

From the Hebrew language and from the Septuagint we may understand that when NIV says "your settlements on the mainland", it comes from the literal phrase "your daughters that are in the land", in which "land" comes from the Hebrew Sadeh which is opposed to sea. Ashurbanipal, the Assyrian king, identifies Ushu in the mainland: "ON MY RETURN MARCH, I CONQURED THE TOWN USHU THE EMPLACEMENT OF WHICH IS ON THE SEACOAST." (ANET, p.300)

So, as I see, when the prophecy uses the pronoun "YOU" in chapter 26, it means the city in the Island. Doesn't it?. So, it seems clear that Nebuchadnezzar did "ravage your daughters in the land", but did Nebuchadnezzar demolish the walls protecting the Island? did Nebuchadnezzar enter with his horses into the city of the Island? It does not happen. If so, why he could not get any "reward from the campaign he led against Tyre"?, because he could not enter there.

Now it seems that you apply the pronoun "THEY", to the nations, though I understand it to be Nebuchadnezzar and his army, because Ezekiel then admitted that " he and his army got no reward from the campaign he led against Tyre" (Ezekiel 29:18)

14 I will make you a bare rock, and you will become a place to spread fishnets. You will never be rebuilt, for I the Lord have spoken, declares the Sovereign Lord .

"You will never be rebuilt" must mean "the city of the Island never be rebuilt". But we know that the city in the Island was rebuilt.

19 “This is what the Sovereign Lord says: When I make you a desolate city, like cities no longer inhabited, and when I bring the ocean depths over you and its vast waters cover you, 20 then I will bring you down with those who go down to the pit, to the people of long ago. I will make you dwell in the earth below, as in ancient ruins, with those who go down to the pit, and you will not return or take your place in the land of the living. 21 I will bring you to a horrible end and you will be no more. You will be sought, but you will never again be found, declares the Sovereign Lord .” (NIV)

I don't see where it was fulfilled, because Tyre is still inhabited.