Posts by OneEyedJoe

9

The Watchtower Society's Purpose

by compound complex in

"the sole purpose of our existence as a society is to announce the kingdom established in 1914 and to sound the warning of the fall of babylon the great [in 1918].

we have a special message to deliver.

"--- fred franz's words to bethel family, november 17, 1979..

OneEyedJoe

He needed one of those radio announcers to come in behind him:

24

Do you think any animals will ever reach human intelligence?

by EndofMysteries in

if all life was truly random, then what happened that allowed humans to it's current intelligent state, do you think non humans could and will reach that in the future?

.

Other animals will reach human intelligence if there's sustained evolutionary pressure to that end. If smarter animals have a greater chance of reproduction, then the population will evolve to become smarter. There are some hurdles, though. About a quarter of the energy used by our bodies is consumed by our brain. Think of that - the brain is roughly 1-2% of our weight and consumes 25% of our energy. That's a HUGE penalty to overcome if food is scarce or if conservation of body heat is important. That immediately reduces the area of the planet where intelligent life is likely to evolve by a large factor.

In the history of evolution, things like vision, flight, echolocation, opposable thumbs, and many other features have evolved multiple times along distinct lineages. Human levels of intelligence, though, has only evolved once. This indicates that it probably requires some pretty specific circumstances to develop. It is also possible that having one species with high intelligence dominating the planet (humans) will in some way prevent another species from developing similar intelligence. It may be that intelligence fills a niche that once full prevents other species from being able to successfully exploit the advantages of intelligence without being overwhelmed by the disadvantage of having to support a large brain.

Of course primates are the most likely animals to evolve intelligence, but since they share a pretty recent ancestor with us that's not a very interesting case. Dolphins have a shot, perhaps, but I think that's probably fairly unlikely due to a lack of flexibility in their bodies - they are much more limited than primates in their ability to manipulate their environment (though there are some indications that they've learned to use tools to catch food without human influence) so I think their ability to take advantage of increased intelligence is limited. Some birds are very intelligent as well, but I suspect evolutionary pressure will force them as a species to maintain the ability to fly in most cases where intelligence might be selected for - so the increased brain mass would come with a great penalty that might not be something that could be overcome. Obviously there are flightless birds, but they've evolved largely in environments that offer other obstacles to the evolution of a large brain.

In any event, evolution has proven itself capable of creating some pretty surprising things, so who knows what'll happen.

7

My Freedom as an "Apostate"

by TheLiberator in

just curious.

how many of you are "apostates", but not disfellowshipped?

i know this happens if you keep this stuff secret.

OneEyedJoe

I don't really have any interaction with JWs any more at this point, but I've been pretty open with a couple people about my apostasy and nothing's been done. I don't have much of a social network, though, so my influence isn't nearly what yours has been so I'm probably not seen as much of a threat. Also my father-in-law is an elder in my former congregation and told my wife repeatedly that thinking it's a cult isn't grounds for disfellowshipping. Not sure where he got that, but I think he's prevented action from being taken for her sake and probably doesn't want to be seen as flip-flopping on that.

22

How To Spot A Cult - This is what started woke me up!!

by pale.emperor in

this is the article that woke me up.

i felt sick after reading it.

then sad.

OneEyedJoe

It's a good list, but I think it's missing one important thing - loaded language.

I don't remember where I read it (probably some reference to lifton's work) but when I was in my early teens I got a little tidbit about how cults use loaded language wherein words have different definitions for cultists than they do for society at large. I think that was a very large part of the foundation that my awakening was built on because I often had moments of clarity where I'd recognize that JWs used loaded language extensively. Especially when speakers would talk about why it's kingdom hall vs church or meetings vs mass. Once I recall a guy giving a talk went so far as to explain that we have to be mindful of how we sound when talking to worldly people because if we tell someone we were "out in the field" all day they'll think we're crazy, or if we say we were "in service" they'll think we were in the military, etc. I think he gave 5 or 6 examples and sitting there listening to all the loaded language rattled off and highlighted like that made me deeply uncomfortable. It was something that I never forgot and would often think back to when doubts would come up.

22

Song 146 - You did it for me

by Listener in

the watchtower 1970 4/1 emphasis the principle that singing at the kingdom hall is part of worship to god and is one of the most beautiful ways they can show this worship to him.. of all the ways in which we can worship and praise jehovah god—by prayer, by public talks, by our field ministry and by our exemplary conduct—one of the most beautiful of them is this literal singing of songs to jehovah’s praise....and, above all, let us pay more than usual attention to the words.

it is by the words that we worship jehovah god, bringing praise to him.

as an introduction to song 146, jw org states -jesus considers any act of love and support for his anointed brothers as though it were done for him.

OneEyedJoe

these songs are simply infantile

Yeah, I was really bummed when they gave us the new song book. I really miss the song about beating off bees that had been molested.

51

Why are anniversaries allowed but not birthdays?

by hyperpen in

the scripture quotes aside, i was always told that we don't celebrate birthdays because that is a celebration of the self, which has no place in jehovah's organization.

then why celebrate anniversaries?

anniversary celebrations are about the joining of two selves, isn't that twice as selfish?.

OneEyedJoe

I personally believe birthdays are not allowed because it's a cult and cults need members to avoid mixing with "worldly" people. This of course does not apply to anniversaries.

This. Birthdays are a threat to the invisible walls that are built up separating JWs from normal people in two ways that anniversary celebrations aren't. The first, and probably most important, is that children have birthdays - their growth depends in large part on turning JW children into adult members so it's important that they keep the children segregated from normal people in order to properly indoctrinate the phobias of the outside and prevent them from developing a support system outside the cult that they could potentially turn to when they have doubts. Second, birthdays are often recognized by normal people at work or in school, etc. Anniversaries are typically ignored unless you're close friends with someone. Again, it's about separating JWs from normal society.

That doesn't really answer the spirit of the question, though. But there are so many double standards - so many things are forbidden on the basis of pagan origins but neckties and wedding rings aren't a problem. Tattoos are bad but shaving is good. etc. etc. They'll always just ignore the contrast because when you look at it closely you realize that it's ridiculous. In most cases, too, it comes down to whether they can effectively use the rule to either reduce individuality (i.e. no tattoos and all men must shave) or reduce exposure to normal people (birthdays, holidays, etc). Forbidding an anniversary party doesn't really do either of those very well. Same goes for wedding rings. They're fine because not wearing a wedding ring isn't going to separate you from normal people and there's not much individuality expressed there in most cases.

There would also be some risk to them in forbidding anniversaries. Since many couples celebrate privately with a nice dinner or something this could generate a place where some "weak" JWs would rebel and perhaps realize that the cult was overly controlling. This is particularly a problem because this rebellion would be two people together, which could result in their discussing it and thinking about it together which would increase the odds that they discuss other issues that they have with the cult.

22

Song 146 - You did it for me

by Listener in

the watchtower 1970 4/1 emphasis the principle that singing at the kingdom hall is part of worship to god and is one of the most beautiful ways they can show this worship to him.. of all the ways in which we can worship and praise jehovah god—by prayer, by public talks, by our field ministry and by our exemplary conduct—one of the most beautiful of them is this literal singing of songs to jehovah’s praise....and, above all, let us pay more than usual attention to the words.

it is by the words that we worship jehovah god, bringing praise to him.

as an introduction to song 146, jw org states -jesus considers any act of love and support for his anointed brothers as though it were done for him.

OneEyedJoe

While I agree with you 100% that this is a rather transparent attempt to motivate the average JW to do more to support the GB, I don't think I agree with your interpretation of that verse. I think they're trying to say that anything JWs do to support the anointed (and since they've pushed for the anointed to be mostly anonymous, this mainly means supporting the GB) are things that Jesus will later repay them for. In other words, you give money to them and Jesus will repay the debt later. It's still pretty shameless, but not quite as bad as saying that they're owed the support of the "other sheep."

21

Branch visit yesterday

by neat blue dog in

there was a special convention yesterday, a branch visit in ghana with david splane as the guest of honor..

OneEyedJoe

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/no-expense-spared-governing-body-members-do-fly-business-class

If you trust that jwsurvey did indeed receive their unpublished proof of the above story, then it looks like the GB do fly first class. I've read many here talking about the entourage that GB members travel with as well - I wonder if they all fly first class too. That could really add up...but what do they care, it's not their money.

15

For those that carry on as JWs secretly not believing.....

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

my heart goes out for all people stuck in all high control groups, either with insight into the falsehood of their beliefs or none.. to remain a member whilst knowing it false however, must be soul destroying.. my question is, would you carry on living the lie if you discovered that we get one life, one go at existing.

it's short, it's fragile and nobody in 100 years will care we even existed..... .......if you came to that realisation would you quit?.

.......if you had children, would you leave in order to set them an example in strength and appreciation of the short time we enjoy?.

OneEyedJoe

I don't think most who've found TTATT plan on staying in indefinitely. People just stay in until they can get out, or in an effort to get loved ones out with them. While we only have one life to live staying in the cult for a time is no different than other sacrifices we make. We work, do chores, etc because we need to pay the bills and these things, while unpleasant, enable us to achieve some goal that ultimately makes it worthwhile (hopefully).

Of course there are some that are beaten down and think that a life outside the cult is unachievable for them. Like an abused spouse their self-worth may be low and they may overestimate the difficulty of moving on. For these folks, I suspect a pep-talk about having one life to live probably won't make much difference. Hopefully any in this situation will eventually find their way here or somewhere similar to find the support they need and see all the examples of people who have made it out and live rewarding, genuine lives in spite of facing the same challenges that they do. That's probably going to be what gives them the push they need to make a change in their life.

11

Is confrontational "New Atheism" undermining the cause of atheism?

by EdenOne in

interesting debate between lawrence krauss and greg epstein.. watch the debate on al-jazeera.. what do you think?.

eden.

OneEyedJoe

I think both groups do good and we should have people that are confrontational and debate in a manner that holds their opponents accountable for using fallacy and cheats to defend their case (ala dawkins/harris/hitchens). Folks like that, that didn't back down, played a huge role in planting doubts in me early on because while I still held on to the JW lies for some time, I knew that many of the terrible things they said about god really had no defense that was intellectually honest. Some people are ready to be held accountable for their lack of logic. At the same time, others will be much more likely to be won over by different approaches like establishing atheist groups that demonstrate that atheists are no less moral or purpose in life than theists.

I say let everyone fight against the insanity of religion in their own way and they'll reach different groups of people. One group may turn off a few people to atheism, but they'll reach others that would otherwise been content to stay put were atheists only seeking to "form alliances" with them. One group may turn people off, and the other will reassure them. One group may fail to reach some due to their pulling punches, the other group will find them. There's a time and a place for both points of view and both strategies.