OneEyedJoe

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Posts by OneEyedJoe

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  34

  If God is the Creator, who created God or how did he evolve?

  by KateWild in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if god is the creator, who created god or how did he evolve?.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Any creationist answer to this question amounts to nothing more than special pleading.
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  21

  What is the real purpose of attending your JC?

  by StarTrekAngel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i was compelled to ask this question because i have seen several of the youtube videos on jcs.

  on striking similarity among all these videos is that most of the people bringing the arguments to the elders are pretty much atheists or have turned to another religion altogether.. i can easily see that the common concern in most of the people involved, is their ability to keep in touch with family and friends, which by all means would be my concern as well, when and if i ever end up in one.. however, i can't help but to notice something.

  it is difficult enough to think of the day that the wt would accept a loose canon in their ranks, let alone someone who openly claims to no longer believe in god.

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  OneEyedJoe

  As I see it there's a few reasons to attend a JC for apostasy, and keeping your family is probably one of the smaller ones. In my mind the only thing to do if you want to keep your family is to go and lie your ass off in an attempt to prevent being DFed. Going and arguing with elders and deciding whether you claim the WT is wrong vs god doesn't exist - none of that really matters because you'll be DFed and your family will shun you (often without fully knowing why anyway, so it doesn't matter if you're athiest or just non-JW christian).

  For those that go and argue the point with the elders, there's a couple reasons I can think of. 1st is probably the misguided attempt to wake them up. I say misguided because I don't think I've ever heard a story of a former elder here relating how they woke up after sitting on a JC for apostasy. I'd love to be shown wrong, but I doubt that's happened anywhere near enough times to justify the effort.

  Next possible reason would be seeking validation. In some cases this might fall into a subset of the first reason, i.e. you think you're going to be validated by waking up an elder in the JC, but I think in most cases it's to go and make airtight arguments that the WT is wrong and see the closed-minded iron-fisted elders fight back using dirty tactics, excuses and fallacious arguments. I can see this being validating because you'd leave knowing that you're absolutely right if their best is truly that pitiful. Another way it could be validating is to see that these elders, in spite of what they might say, are not seeking to save a lost sheep as they are supposed to according to the bible. They are seeking to expel you, further proof of the unloving, unchristian policies of this cult.

  Then the best reason I can think of to attend a JC - to record it and post it online as a way of demonstrating just what this cult is really about. The more publicity this nasty side of the cult gets, the better.

  Maybe I've missed something, but I really can't think of any other goal that you could possibly hope to achieve by attending your JC. That said, I will never attend a JC. I'll probably be DAing at some point in the not-too-distant future.
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  31

  Why JW's Rave So Much About Conventions

  by freemindfade in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "it was so beautiful, we are truly blessed!

  now, they also plaster these affirmations all over social media, "this is the best life", “so blessed”, “best convention”.. why the gushing?

  have you ever heard anyone say, “mmmm it was ok”?

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  OneEyedJoe

  Yeah, I think for the true believers, FMF's first post really captures a lot of what makes them declare every convention (and, indeed, every meeting) the "best ever." Then there's the fence-sitters and those that don't really 'feel it' like everyone else (I was always in this group, personally) who just agree and nod along or say it with some sarcasm just because it's the only thing that's socially acceptable to do. Who wants to have an argument over whether or not it actually was the best convention ever? I certainly never did. You'll only lose when everyone starts in on the attack and end up getting lectured and scolded and left receiving suspicious looks for a while.

  Sometimes it can be difficult to tell the true believers and the semi-doubters apart, just because any appearance other than being a true believer results in punishment in some form or another. This just leaves anyone who doesn't really "feel it" feeling as if they're completely alone with no choice but to just go along.
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  9

  Part One of what could be a long introduction

  by LifesNotOver in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello - let me try to explain.

  a couple of months ago or so i joined this forum, then shortly after checked out jwrecovery which seemed a better fit personally and joined them.

  started to feel comfortable there and they closed, and i pouted for a while.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Welcome! We've all been the new kid at some point, don't feel bad. I hope you're able to get time to write more soon. It's always great to hear from new members!
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  21

  "Well now at least they get a ressurection!"

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  yes, that is what a witness said after the police shootings and terrible aftermath of violence occurred this week in the usa..... they said that it now gives them a chance to live forever...as if they would not have had that opportunity if they had not been tragically killed..... of course according to witness teachings, the contradictory thing is that if the big a had come a day before, then those same people would have been killed by jehovah because they were not his worshipers.....

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  OneEyedJoe

  Disgusting statement, but yes it follows as a logical extension of JW doctrine. As a JW I was often bothered by the fact that if you really believed the doctrine and were motivated by love of neighbor to preach then the most loving thing you could do would be to shoot people in the face as soon as they open the door. Since practically no one ever became a JW from d2d preaching, you could be pretty sure you're giving them a much better chance of making it to paradise that way.
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  51

  Dallas Texas 5 Police Officers dead & 6 wounded ?

  by smiddy in

  1. social
  2. current

  and it is still ongoing ?.

  obviously sparked off by the 2 afro american citizens gunned down by police officers these past few days.?.

  when is this sort of violence going to end ?.

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  OneEyedJoe

  Obviously sparked off by the 2 Afro American citizens gunned down by police officers these past few days.?
  

  That's not obvious. It could well have been an opportunist taking advantage of a concentration of police officers at the protest.

  Being a cop is beyond dangerous....
  

  False. It's not even in the top 10 most dangerous jobs. Stats from the department of labor: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/personal-finance/10-most-dangerous-jobs-us-2.aspx
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  3

  October Workbook Contacts

  by darkspilver in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  not seen any discussion on the october workbook yet .

  must say, they're kinda blander than the kms.

  oct 31 to nov 6 the contact cards are being promoted - including two of the demos - 'initial call' and 'return visit'.

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  OneEyedJoe

  At the 2014 international convention Loesch made a point of insisting that the org is not moving backwards to old ways of the phonograph and testimony cards, even though they're pushing the use of videos and contact cards. Nope, not moving backwards at all. The name is different so it's totally new!
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  33

  Jesus Knows the Day & Hour Now?

  by KillerJones in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was skimming the july 2016 wt study article and came across a paragraph indicating that, despite scriptural evidence, the governing body indeed feels that god's son now knows the exact day and hour of armageddon.

  is this 'new light'?

  from the second study article, page 14, pgh 4:.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I'm pretty sure this is old hat. I thought the interpretation was always that Jesus didn't know the time when he said those words, but now that we're in the last days the final preparations have been made and he's been let in on the plan.

  In the end, I don't see how it matters since Jesus isn't exactly the forthcoming type with the details.
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  26

  Are gays really condemned in the Bible?

  by jws in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  so i was having this argument with a friend about the westboro baptist idiots.

  my point is that while they are horrible people, they are pretty much right in that the bible is against gays because it has verses in both the old and the new testament.

  which is one of many reasons to reject the bible as merely man-made rules from ancient middle-easterners.. and she argued that there are problems in translation, etc.

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  OneEyedJoe

  I agree, there's no way to rationalize your way out of the bible being anti-gay.

  Even if you have to rely upon the mosaic law, it's still a big strike against the bible. Eating pork or shellfish or not wearing a fringe on your clothes are not innate like sexual orientation. So even if god only decided to force gay people into a life of pretending to be straight back then, it still shows that god is either a cruel jackass or he has no clue about the life that he supposedly created. Either way he's no god worth worshiping.
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  3

  "The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements" - a book by Eric Hoffer

  by OrphanCrow in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have just finished reading "the true believer: thoughts on the nature of mass movements" by eric hoffer.

  the book was published in 1951, during the cold war, yet the theories and principles, that hoffer proposes to explain the phenomena of mass movements, are as relevant today as they were then.

  (there are several threads on this forum that discuss aspects of hoffer's statements and theories.).

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  OneEyedJoe

  Definitely describes the WT doctrine very well. I've often said that the doctrine is intentionally impossible to understand and make internally coherent as a way to train people to give up on trying to understand it and just believe in it. It also, as the quoted passage eludes to, minimizes the self when you find that even the smallest piece of doctrine becomes incomprehensible upon examination. When you find problems with something small but look around and see that everyone else appears to understand it and embrace it, it instills self-doubt. This self-doubt then serves as motivation to seek further safety in the group and it also trains you to dismiss misgivings about the group.