Posts by umbertoecho

7

Manipulation of child minds

by Marvin Shilmer in

today i read a comment on my blog about an image found in a 1958 watchtower publication titled from paradise lost to paradise regained.

it reminded me of what went through my mind back in those years.

watchtower meeting agendas were notoriously boring with the result of children (including teenagers) spending their time looking at pictures in great detail.

umbertoecho

OMG! I grew up with that book and remember those illustrations. They worried and frightened me because I knew, just knew...........I was never going to make it!!

28

Did you know WTBTS applied for Holocaust compensation?

by umbertoecho in

did you know that the wtbts applied for these compensation funds?

i had no idea and if this has already been addressed then so be it.

i find it interesting due to the fact that so much is made of the jws being in camps during ww2 and nothing else is expressed about the other millions who died in these camps.

Exactly!! The WT makes is abundantly clear that it was seeking compensation for it'self as an entity, a sort of composite body if you like. And in that capacity it felt entitled to claim money for themselves, not for those who were descendants of that time.

This is crude, vulgar........so many horrible words come to mind.

28

Did you know WTBTS applied for Holocaust compensation?

by umbertoecho in

did you know that the wtbts applied for these compensation funds?

i had no idea and if this has already been addressed then so be it.

i find it interesting due to the fact that so much is made of the jws being in camps during ww2 and nothing else is expressed about the other millions who died in these camps.

umbertoecho

Jan212004

Did you know that the WTBTS applied for these compensation funds? I had no idea and if this has already been addressed then so be it. I find it interesting due to the fact that so much is made of the JWs being in camps during WW2 and nothing else is expressed about the other millions who died in these camps.

The Watchtower Society’s application for funds from Swiss Bank Litigation

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF
NEW YORK

In re Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation:
Master Document No. CV -96-4849
(ERK) (MDG)
Consolidates with CV-96-S161 and : CV-96-461

This Document Relates to All Actions :

Holocaust Victim Assets Litigation (Swiss Bank Litigation)
Proposed Plan of Allocation for
Jehovah’s Witness Victims and Targets of Nazi Persecution

December 7, 1999

COMES NOW, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, (hereinafter Watch Tower), the corporate agency directing the administrative and religious work of Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide, by its attorney, Carolyn R. Wah, requesting an allocation of a portion of the settlement fund for Holocaust education and remembrance as well as just and equitable compensation as outlined below:

As the attached report entitled “Spiritual Resistance and Its Cost for a Christian Minority: A Documentary Report of Jehovah’s Witnesses Under Nazism, 1933-1945″ will show, the Nazi persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses, which spanned virtually the entire Nazi period, exacted a heavy physical, financial, and emotional toll on that small religious community in all Nazi- occupied lands. The report also evidences that the Witnesses’ individual and organized stance in opposition to the violent ideology of the regime was a decisive factor in the severity of the persecution, resulting in profound losses.

Although conclusive documentation may be lacking for the claims of individuals targeted as Jehovah’s Witnesses; there are three factors that argue for a favorable hearing for the individual applicants, even where the elusive “Swiss connection” may be weak:

(1) Since Jehovah’s Witnesses were among the earliest groups to be targeted for sentencing to concentration camps, they were often used in the actual construction of the camps. In some cases, the SS-run camps could, in themselves, be considered commercial enterprises that benefited from slave labor. Because the Witnesses had been in the camp system for long periods of time, they sometimes worked for the camp administration, but without due compensation, of course

(2) Witness literature often carried sharp criticism of flagrant human rights violations in Nazi Germany. This was true of Witness literature produced and distributed clandestinely within Nazi-occupied Europe, as well as Witness literature published internationally. The Gestapo was well aware of the critical and revealing content of the literature, and thus they expended extraordinary effort to expose and destroy the secret printing facilities. They confiscated printing equipment, burned stocks of literature whenever it was found, and hunted down and executed many of those involved with the underground work. Thus, the nonviolent resistance offered by the Witnesses increased the financial, material, and physical losses they sustained.

(3) The nonviolent, nonpolitical resistance of Jehovah’s Witnesses to Nazi policies is distinctive for its duration and consistency. It is not possible to quantify the losses suffered by families whose mothers or fathers were given lengthy sentences in camp or prison because of their faith. Beyond the lost wages, lost property, and lost years are the intangible costs suffered by all victims of Nazi terror. Unlike other victims, however, most Witnesses had a choice. Generally, they were targeted solely because of their religious convictions. Witnesses were offered the opportunity to avoid persecution simply by renouncing their beliefs. Therefore, by virtue of the length of the persecution and the nature of their resistance, we ask that the court grant special consideration to the applications of Witness survivors or their heirs, which will no doubt be few in number. Further, the court may allocate a portion of the settlement to be used for purposes of Holocaust education and remembrance. Combating intolerance and indifference is extremely important work. The Watch Tower and individual Jehovah’s Witnesses have expended hundreds of thousands of dollars to promote awareness of the Holocaust and its lessons. The Watch Tower and its affiliate branch offices have made educational and academic presentations, free of admission charge, in the United States, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, Israel, and most countries of Eastern and Western Europe. More than 400 seminars and exhibitions have been held in

3

Germany alone, often in cooperation with concentration camp memorials, research institutions, and museums. Important research and archival work is being conducted in Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, Poland, Russia, Israel, and other places.

The few remaining Witness survivors have used their waning vitality to speak to young people, educators, and scholars about their experiences and those of their martyred fellow believers. If the court sees fit to allocate a portion of the settlement fund to the Watch Tower to continue this work of remembrance, we believe it would constitute fitting recognition of individual Witnesses who suffered and died while maintaining their faith and human values.

Some Witnesses died prematurely and left no heirs to make a claim to the Swiss Bank Settlement Fund. However, the legacy of spiritual resistance that they left behind is of great value in the education of future generations about the importance of standing up for the dignity and value of human life. Representing these individuals, the Watch Tower would be pleased to devote any allocated moneys solely to the interests of Holocaust education and the remembrance of the prisoners who bore the purple triangle, according as the court might stipulate.

Realizing that thousands of survivors and heirs will apply to the court to receive a portion of the Settlement Fund, Watch Tower is not in a position to recommend a certain percentage to be allotted for the purposes outlined above, nor are we able to suggest what portion of the Fund should be allotted to individual Witness survivors. Watch Tower acknowledges that no amount of money can fully compensate for the losses of any victims of Nazi persecution. However, if the funds provided by the Swiss Banks Settlement can symbolically or practically mitigate the human suffering of survivors or their families, or if it can advance the work of education and remembrance, the money will have been well spent. In this allocation process, we rely on the court’s equity and fairness.

4

WHERFORE, in light of this information, Watch Tower, respectfully request an award in harmony with the just and equitable principles outlined in the settlement order.

December 7,1999.
Respectfully submitted,
signature
Carolyn R. Wah
Associate General Counsel
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society
of Pennsylvania
100 Watchtower Drive
Patterson, NY 12563
Tel: (914) 306-0700
Fax: (914) 306-0709

41

July 19th Watchtower Summary. Insanity

by Lemonp in

just got back from the wt study and it overall was just so blindingly biased and leading.. i had to read it from the platform too, i hope they couldn't see the confounded look on my face as i read this craziness out!.

first we consider the faith of abel, enoch, noah, abraham, isaac and jacob, and moses.. all of these people are held up as sterling examples of blind faith, with the article pointedly saying that their imaginations sustained their faith in gods promises for them.

no mention anywhere at all that all of these characters saw and talked to angels, spoke to god himself, saw and performed miracles, or any of the other feats experienced by these characters.

umbertoecho

Berean Pickets is the site that Meleti Vivlon started a few years ago. I good critical site that has gradually developed followers who are interested in revealing untruths and mis quoted scripture.

42

How much damage has internet done against the The Watchtower Society ?

by opusdei1972 in

in the beginning of internet the society was worried about the information published exposing its falsehood.

so, i wonder how many people lost the society on account of forums and web sites like this.

.

umbertoecho

It took being treated very badly by study conductors and the haughty elders to make me wonder at the reality of this "Spiritual Paradise" we were supposed to be living in.

I noticed how nasty they were to certain members in the hall. They were nasty to a guy who was gay although he was inactive in that sense. He tried so hard. They were cold toward a woman who's husband had died, saying that she was a winging miserable person. The whole place was filled with this nasty judgement. I could not reconcile it with what I was told to believe.

It was then I went to the internet. Everything changed, books were recommended, sites were there to explore the real problems of the WT. It was there that I found so much out that I could not blinker myself to the facts.

The Internet is the WTs worst nightmare. Of that I am completely sure!!!

63

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh

by WildeLover in

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-watchtower-imploding-10-reasons-why-the-end-could-be-nigh.

i dont know how to hyperlink the link above,.

it's a link to an article by cedars on the possibility of the wt imploding?.

umbertoecho

The one main item that people seem to miss is the pension influence within the WT walls. One can't help but notice how many CO's and other full time (aka paid by WT) servants are retiring. This in turn is causing a "pension" crisis within the organization. In truth if you made me guess, its probably a growing burden that they did not plan on paying.

elderNewton.

I would like to know more about the "pension" that you speak of. If you don't mind leading me to some source or simply laying it out for me. You see, it is never, ever mentioned here in Australia. Nothing is said. Why is that that? Last year I discovered that a property not far from me had been gifted to the society. It is three units, used for when various COs or whatever are here.

The elders wife looked embarrassed when she told me this as we stood looking at this property. I wondered ...."who missed out in that family?" Now I have discovered pensions.

36

Family Reuinion and Being Disfellowshipped (sorry...but it's long)

by babygirl30 in

jw
friends

it has been a long looong time since i posted on here, but never ceased reading all the posts and keeping up on the changes that have been going on!

but it just seems that now i have a need to get something off my chest, and this is the one place that will most definitely understand the topic at hand.

i have been disfellowshipped for about 8yrs now, and have dealt with the 'consequences' of that decision: all my so-called friends in the org left and i was also abandoned by my own family.

umbertoecho

I have been here a short time, but reading your post gave a sense of familiarity that I personally relate to.

I think that one of the greatest things that will happen to your' parents, will be the fact that you outlive them. Sounds terrible doesn't it? But, it's true. You will outlive these self righteous and bitter people who have achieved zero in terms of applying genuine love to the world.

Very glad for you and sorry too.

63

Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh

by WildeLover in

http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/is-watchtower-imploding-10-reasons-why-the-end-could-be-nigh.

i dont know how to hyperlink the link above,.

it's a link to an article by cedars on the possibility of the wt imploding?.

umbertoecho

Watchtower is changing in order to appear less demented. I think it will carry on and on in a limping sort of way long after we are dead. It's core beliefs will be "refreshed" with each generation of followers, until they hardly exist as we know them today.

Having been there in the sixties and looking at them now. It is fascinating to see how unrecognisable they are today. The passion is gone the conviction in their doctrines is wobbling.

14

Just Sharing a couple of experiences I heard in the last day or two about ones leaving the Borg.

by Crazyguy in

i was having breakfast with a friend and former jw just yesterday and he informed me that the place we were eating in is owned by a former witness.

the story goes as he tells me that the wife and husband or on the outs and getting a divorce.

now just so you know the state i live in, a divorce is not quick, mandatory waiting period etc.

umbertoecho

This was my shepherding call.................A text message from the elder asking how I was.

I sent back a text asking him if that was the best he could do. No reply.

I couldn't believe it.

62

Finally an Article About Unthank!

by jamiebowers in

http://www.latrobevalleyexpress.com.au/news/local/news/general/private-prosecution-gets-thrown-out-of-court/2468225.aspx?storypage=2private prosecution gets thrown out of court.

by louis nelson.

27 feb, 2012 01:00 am.

umbertoecho

He is also partly responsible information being revealed about the society. He took a battering but would not give up. He is well informed now and will play a role in part where the Royal Commission is concerned. It was he who had the guts to make a great big bloody noise about this form of corruption.

I think that case was thrown away at the time but was re heard? Re done? (out of the right phrase at the moment) It went back to court anyway.........