Posts by ellderwho

"Lord our Heavenly Father, High and Mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech thee, on these our American States, who have fled to thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent on Thee, to Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give; take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle! Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst Thy people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. all this we ask In the Name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.

Amen."

The First Prayer offered in Congress

September 7th, 1774 by Jacob Duche in Carpenters Hall, Philadelphia

84

without God what would humanity do?

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

jw
friends

what would humanity do without some belief in an almighty, in a divine in something?.

how has it shaped the way modern man thinks?.

would we better off or worse, without a belief in that which is divine?.

ellderwho

perhaps one day all the atheists will band together and wipe out all the organised religions but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Why would they(atheist) care, this life is purposeless.

The emergence of democracy in 18th-century ;Europe (which inspired the founders of the U.S.A.) ;was mostly against the church which stood for ;"divine right" ;monarchy.

Crediting Christianity for modern democracy is a joke.

Funny, our founding fathers used "God speak" while drawing up the Declaration of Independence. Ben Franklin called for a two week recess to seek divine guidance. Which then started; begining congress with prayer.

84

without God what would humanity do?

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

jw
friends

what would humanity do without some belief in an almighty, in a divine in something?.

how has it shaped the way modern man thinks?.

would we better off or worse, without a belief in that which is divine?.

ellderwho

Goodness, how pray tell was that in any way a substantive reply to his reply? Are you arguing just to see your own typed out words on a web page?

Ah yeah. Gee ya got me.

explanation of who it was that taught him morality already suffice.

Still in the box I see.

84

without God what would humanity do?

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

jw
friends

what would humanity do without some belief in an almighty, in a divine in something?.

how has it shaped the way modern man thinks?.

would we better off or worse, without a belief in that which is divine?.

ellderwho

Why cant I do the same? Whose to say I cant make a self indulgent form of laws that suit my own interests or those of my kind. What if I feel that the ones with power are totally wrong with their government of my moral behavior.
You can't do the same because you are not alone, and your power to make the rules to suit your interests ;depends on where you stand in the general power struggle. Try it someday.

Whoa! wait a tic. Nark, lets get out of the box shall we? Do ya think I might be playing devils advocate here? Jeese!

Elderwho
Perhaps you need to prove that your god is the source of civil law. ;

Where in the thread did I introduce God as the source of civil law. Perhaps you need to answer the question re: "hardwired helpfulness" in individuals, and there inability to display such qualities. Even though they are pre-disposed to act accordingly.

Ew, like myself would like to know how you get your concepts of right & wrong, good & evil, from nothing ("without God").
A false dilemma

Won't you clear this up then?

84

without God what would humanity do?

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

jw
friends

what would humanity do without some belief in an almighty, in a divine in something?.

how has it shaped the way modern man thinks?.

would we better off or worse, without a belief in that which is divine?.

ellderwho

Nark,

So whats your point? Forget about God as the thread suggest. Make these moral laws originate from the apes, or whatever Godless begining you choose.

84

without God what would humanity do?

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

jw
friends

what would humanity do without some belief in an almighty, in a divine in something?.

how has it shaped the way modern man thinks?.

would we better off or worse, without a belief in that which is divine?.

ellderwho

then it follows that god is the author of civil law. ; That is the answer you wanted, wasn't it? ;

No its not. Lets build this thing without God.

Obviously, whoever has the power decides what is and isn't bad behavior.

The question is "without God what would humanity do?" Lets get rid of God and the Ten comandments for a moment, according to your premise man will have made laws unto himself.

Why cant I do the same? Whose to say I cant make a self indulgent form of laws that suit my own interests or those of my kind. What if I feel that the ones with power are totally wrong with their government of my moral behavior.

Other 'bad behaviors' like witholding of the paying of taxes, for instance, could lead to large upheavals if they were allowed to spread

Do you think that the rich and powerful enjoy paying taxes? Arent they the ones that could change this bad behavior into good behavior?

Throughout the whole process, self interests of the various groups ;are the strongest forces behind the formation of civil law.

Here's another example, self interest groups as you say are the strongest forces behind civil law. Who left this group judge and jury? I personally do not want to listen to them because I can make my own laws just like them. Im sure I can find plenty of people interested in making public nudity acceptable. Or public urination acceptable. The list goes own.

84

without God what would humanity do?

by BlackSwan of Memphis in

jw
friends

what would humanity do without some belief in an almighty, in a divine in something?.

how has it shaped the way modern man thinks?.

would we better off or worse, without a belief in that which is divine?.

ellderwho

Consequences for bad behaviour is the purpose of civil law.

What is bad behavior? According to whom?

22

Anyone else have allergy problems flaring?

by MsMcDucket in

jw
friends

i didn't go into work tonight.

my allergies are kicking my butt.

i snort like a pig; blow my nose, frequently; have post nasal drip; sneeze like a hyenna; have gunk in my eyes; and sleep poorly.

ellderwho

I suffered for years. Two years ago I finally went to an allergist. Best thing is that after about six months I stopped taking all those antihistamines, which was impossible prior to the allergist.

My 7yo goes as well, he suuffered as I did as a little boy. And hes doing great with the treatments.

43

Meeting Survival Guide Games to play

by unclebruce in

jw
friends

meeting survival guide games we play

one doesn't grow up religiously attending '5 meetings a week' without developing a strategy for survival.

mine started at about ten years of age and gradually grew more sophisticated as the years assemblies rolled by.

ellderwho

I stated drawing caricatures of the speaker™

The best way to pass time bar none. Because you might actually look like your doing something. I first started to dable with pot around 16 years old., by 17 I had my first car I would go to the meetings myself. Which looked great with mom and the elders, little did they know I was attending, stoned off my ass. (which would be the #1 way to pass time at the hall)

Course this lasted a coulpe more years and that was that.