Posted by You Know on May 25, 1998 at 19:23:58:
In Reply to: an honest question 4 YK posted by eric on May 25, 1998 at 16:58:55:
What you must appreciate about the situation as it existed at that time is the slowness of communication and travel. The Apostle Paul and others in the missionary field were essentially isolated from the headquarters of the organization in Jerusalem. Even letters took months to arrive at their destinations, so, as this controversy developed over whether the gentiles should be compelled to conform to Jewish law or not, those in Jerusalem could not see how Jehovah was opening up the gentile minds to accept the truth that Paul was preaching. Which is why Paul had to travel back to Jerusalem to relate what was actually happening in the field. He could have simply ignored the sensibilities of the older men in Jerusalem, and reasoned to himself that he knew what was going on, 'forget those guys, they're out of it.' But rather, the course that he took is the exact same course that we take today, who have certain insights, or questions; and that is we respectfully present our case, and then we let it rest with those whom Jehovah has impowered to decide what shall be 'food at the proper time.' / You Know
Posted by You Know on May 18, 1998 at 09:59:11:
Posted by You Know [YOUKNOW] on August 13, 1999 at 10:10:38 {qyOwwooq../CPYT8orz2uZ.2QN.njo}:
In Reply to: You Know - Please Answer posted by RecentLurker on August 13, 1999 at 07:59:39:
***Now that you have read Ray Franz publication(s), didn't you find them in the least bit unsettling? ***
So far I have only read the Crisis book, and I can in all honesty report to you that I was not the lest bit disturbed in my faith by what I read. Of course, I had a pretty good idea going into it what to expect. In many ways I felt like I was reading something from any numbers of posters on H2O, as it seems that I had encountered nearly all of his issues in some way on this forum over the course of time. Perhaps it is the same principle as the way one becomes immune to rattlesnake venom by taking small doses, and gradully building up to where you can take the full charge. At any rate, he is without question the king snake, and Psalm 91 says of God's holy ones: "You will trample down the big snake." So it is that Ray Franz has had a very minimal effect, relatively, on the faith of Jehovah's loyal ones.
As for catagorizing Franz's book as "lies," I won't classify them as such, not outright lies anyway. I would however describe his writings as slander, not because he is untrue technically, but because his intent is to slyly malign the character of his former associates. Ray Franz is an insidious character because he betrayed the trust of those who were his intimate companions, much like his forerunner Judas.
To illustrate what I am talking about consider the case of the apostles, and their despicable associate---Judas. The Gospel accounts candidly report on all the foolishness and imperfections of the apostles, as any Bible reader knows. But consider for a moment if Judas Iscariot would have been allowed by Jehovah to leave a written record of his personal "crisis of conscience." With the authority of an insider he could have given all the juicy unseemly details of all the apostle's follies. Say for example, if we had Judas' version of the actual dialogue between the disciples when they were arguing among themselves who was the greatest. If we possessed something like that, we couldn't necessarily say it was a lying fabrication, but we could say that it was slanderous nonetheless, because the intent is to discredit and malign.
This is the whole gist of Franz's writings in my opinion. He became puffed up with his own importance and began to feel that he should be running things. When he came to frustration because he didn't get his way, he became vindictive. He struck me as a very weak man. Naturally, someone who developes that sort of critical spirit becomes a ready-made tool of the Devil, which he obviously did. Yes, the brothers have made some serious mistakes, but that does not automatically mean that they are not God's faithful slave.
As I have often pointed out on H2O, many prominent servants of Jehovah, who were in leadership positions, committed some pretty disturbing mistakes. The reason Jehovah has seen fit to record these things, is so that we may have a proper view of who is really running things. I came to the conclusion long ago that no human is running Jehovah's organization. Ray Franz only solidified my faith that Jehovah does not depend on humans to counsel him or fix his organization.
Hope That Helps / You Know
Posted by You Know [YOUKNOW] on August 19, 1999 at 06:04:02 {3iYW/SA9Rg0hi4VK0MIQuZ.2QN.njo}:
In Reply to: ? for YK posted by chappy on August 18, 1999 at 19:23:52:
You are correct. The whole issue of guilt or innocence before Jehovah revolves around recognizing his sovereignty. The primary way that we acknowledge Jehovah's right to rule is accepting his appointment of Jesus Christ as Lord. But it doesn't end there. Jesus is also the head of the congregation.
That means that one who is to be favorably judged by God must whole-heartedly cooperate with God's people. Because many have been stumbled by apostates and opposers, and are unwilling, or disqualified from associating with those over whom Christ is the head, they are really, albeit perhaps unknowingly, of fighting against Christ.
The Scriptures have numerous examples of how Jehovah's sovereignty is expressed through his people, and how those who fought against his people were guilty of fighting against God himself. As Christ pointed out, many will call Jesus their "Lord," in mock submission; but only those who also recognize his spiritual brothers will be considered the true ones--- all the others are those "liking and carrying on a lie."
Hope That Helps / You Know
As these 'last days' proceed to their conclusive finality, the faith of the faithful is indeed put to the test. It is apparent without any doubt, that the underlying factor in the apostasy which is now in full bloom among Jehovah's Witnesses, is that many have become impatient awaiting for the kingdom to arrive and have given way to doubt and criticism. With each passing day the prophetic words of Jesus take on more meaning: 'He that endures to the end is the one that will be saved.'
A similiar situation existed in ancient Israel, as the repeated warnings of the prophets become stale to the Jews, who composed a mocking proverbial saying, which said: "The days are prolonged, and every vision has perished." or as the New Jerusalem Bible says: "The days go by and the visions fade." (Ezekiel 12:22) An amazing parallel can be drawn between the many today who feel that the vision of the new world is just the phantasmagoric ravings of a bunch of senile old men who have presumputously taken to calling themselves by the name of Jehovah.
Jehovah is certainly aware of the situation as it exists today, and offers his continued assurance that his word will without fail come true, and will not be late. Ezekiel was told to tell the faithless Jews of his day: "There wil be no postponement anymore as to any words of mine. What word I shall speak, it will even be done, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah." (Ezekiel 12:28) The fact that such faithlessness and rebellion directed against Jehovah has come to the fore today should alert those who know Jehovah, that the time for him to act is drawing ominously close! / You Know
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Maybe later I'll pull out his Y2K forecasts but I don't want to embarrass the poor man too much.
Cygnus, of the Has All The H2O Archives Class
