It is all over the net that in 1935 Rutherford got a flash of light stating that his followers would start to have an earthly hope. The great multitude that is. And that prior to that there were some classes of earthly salvation but it did not appear to be his followers that would be involved in that. If this is so then why in the Millions now living will never die book written in 1920 was he giving the hope that people could live on earth with the ancient worthies in 1925. This book was written for his followers. Does anyone have any good references and or info regarding this. All help greatly appreciated.
Teaching Prior to 1935 about heaven
by golden age 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Justin
It is never quite clear what you're getting at, but it seems your interest is in regard to the heavenly and earthly hopes, what the Society at one time believed and how that came to change. Have you ever read the Divine Plan of the Ages, published by Charles Russell in 1886 wherein he explains the various classes then thought to be in existence and how people may qualify to be in one class or another? If you read that, you will find conspicuously absent any requirement to belong to an organization in order to belong to any class. Various Bible Student groups still publish this, or you may even read it online at http://www.agsconsulting.com/htdbnon/indexa.htm .
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Cygnus
Yes, various Bible Students even have websites where they explain Russellite ideas. I would venture to guess 10-15 years after Russell's passing (maybe more) Rutherford held to the belief that Joe Schmoe would gain life and have a chance after the Millenium. Remember, Russell was near-Universalist and Armageddon was more of an overthrow of wicked and corrupt systems, not the wholescale deaths of people.
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golden age
lets say today was jan 1 1932 and a witness came to the door trying to convince someone to join the organization, what would they be offering the average joe an earthly or heavenly hope. I do know they believed in four hopes (2 earthly and 2 heavenly).. And they seemed to promote the earthly one in the Millions book. So what was the big change of 1935.
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jwfacts
Rutherford was continuing on at the time with Russells teaching that almost every worldly person gets into the new system. JW's (bible students) went to heaven, the worldly onto earth.
It changed briefly that the good JWs were the 144,000 and the not so good JW's were the great crowd in heaven.
Eventually the great crowd were moved onto earth, a great concept from Rutherford, as it then meant all worldly people could get killed at Armageddon. This theory of narrow salvation from Rutherford was the real beginning of control over JW's and why many consider it a cult.
Even after 1925 went unfulfilled there was still the teaching for a while that the worldly people survived Armageddon. See Deliverance - Final Battle of Armageddon (1926)
I have written an article about millions now living at http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/Page720.htm that contains some quotes. -
Justin
So the original preaching work about "restitution" - or the possibility of living after Armageddon on the restored earth - was not in any way a threat ("you better do this or else") but was merely a "witness" or testimony of what would come to all people. (Matt. 24:14) Out of the people who took an interest in this message would be those who would consecrate or dedicate their all to God and would be in line to become members of the "little flock." But if they then failed to make good on their consecration, they would most likely end up in the "great multitude" which was thought to be a secondary heavenly class rather than in the second death. (The "ancient worthies" or pre-Christian servants of God were expected to be resurrected as princes on earth - this may be your "fourth class.") When Rutherford started making changes, it only very gradually came to be realized that a new picture was emerging. And the idea of theocratic organization had to be enhanced along with the change in the great multitude for the newer JW concept of selective salvation to emerge. Certainly the JWs became aware of these matters before they ever announced them to the public. Even today, no one goes to the doorstep and says "you may live forever on earth if you'll join our organization."
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M.J.
Interestingly, it appears that after the "Great Multitude" was declared to be the automatic status of all new converts in 1935, the teaching that that only church and state institutions will be destroyed in Armaggeddon was in place for about a year. The "new light" that you had to be in the organization to survive Armageddon was instituted with the Rutherford's publication of the book "Riches" in 1936. Can you imagine trying to recruit someone into the organization between these two events? How about trying to retain members of the great multitude? Officially the dogma was that the status of these folks was essentially no different from the rest of mankind...entering the "new system" as subjects of the 144,000. There really was NO advantage to being affiliated with the organization! Something HAD TO BE DONE!
So with the stroke of a pen, Judge Rutherford sentenced ALL MANKIND OUTSIDE OF THE ORGANIZATION a death sentence at Armageddon. "Try and get out of the organization NOW, smarty!"
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golden age
Does anyone have a source for the teaching that the good jws would be annointed and the not so good would be part of the great mult. prior to 1935s change?
Additionally can someone post a scan of the page from SS vol 1 that explains who will be part of the 2 heavenly and 2 earthly classes. It would be greatly appreciated?
One last question, if prior to 1935 jws were part of the great mult and the 144, why do people on the net say that the reason for the new light of 1935 was that the 144 was getting full. If others could just join the great mult and still go to heaven , why the need for the change. Was it just to have more control and not have anything to do with the 144 getting full as many claim?
Thanks
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M.J.
As for your last question, the Bible Students believed that any committed person in the org was in line for being part of the 144,000. Being in the Great Multitude was for the flunkies and for some people in the churches.
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Check_Your_Premises
So with the stroke of a pen, Judge Rutherford sentenced ALL MANKIND OUTSIDE OF THE ORGANIZATION a death sentence at Armageddon. "Try and get out of the organization NOW, smarty!"
DO they actually teach that still?
I have asked dubs recently, "I beleive in Christ, why do I have to be in the right group to have salvation? Christ's sacrifice wasn't enough?"
THey just mumble something about "well only God can say who is saved"
So they are talking about the post millenial judgement? They are avoiding armageddon altogether?