by MrsBee 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Gah, if he hasn't gone back yet, now's the time! Encourage him to join a club of some kind. Rent movies like Matrix and Stepford Wives. Bring home 1984 from the library. He KNOWS about the hypocricy, he just doesn't realize it's more than skin deep.
One side-benefit for partners of JW's is that we must get inside the heads of our mates or drown. They get a sensitive and attentive partner.
MrsBee....I didn't read all the posts so bare with me...'Crisis of Conscience' is a great book and so is Ray's other book 'In Search of Christian Freedom'!
I ONLY felt guilty UNTILL I found out it was all a 'LIE'! Does your husband know about the UN scandal and that the year 1914 is a lie?
If he knew the truth about the 'truth' it would help him!
Mrs Bee,
It sounds like he his jw-itis went active after you became pregnant? This is very common. This is what happened to MJ. We see your situation here about once a month? Having a child causes everyone to look at things differently. Things that weren't important enough to do for ourselves, become very important because we want to do what is best for our kids. People with jw-itis think the jw is what is best for the kids!
You have a critical opportunity as someone said, because he left already. On the other hand, he has decided on some level that he wants to go back. If you use grace and skill you will be able to open his eyes before his jw-itis is fully reactivated.
Unfortunately you haven't had time to aquire any skill. You don't know what you are doing yet, but there are some smart people here who just might be able to talk you through it!!! (picture one of those airplane movies, where the pilot is out and they are telling the passenger how to land the plane) You might just dodge a bullet here!!!
Let's get a better handle on your situation. Ask him these questions. When you ask them be genuinely curious. Don't come at him with an agenda, or as a salesmen. You are just another person trying to understand him better. This is the persona you want to cultivate regardless of what facts you know contrary to the wt. Never lose this persona. Remember ignorant is ok. Maybe practice saying these questions a few times until you get them down. The words are chosen carefully. Smile when you ask them.
1. Have you ever wondered if the jw are really the right religion?
2. How sure are you they are the right religion? On a scale from 1 to 10?
3. Why do you want to join again? (what you are trying to get at here, is what he hopes to achieve by joining. This is the real reason. Facts don't matter, it is reason he WANTS to believe that matters. So if he gives you some crap about it being the truth, keep trying to get at what he thinks it will do for his life now.)
4. If they weren't the right religion, would you want to know it?
5. You said you checked things out. Does that mean if you found a new fact, that seemed to prove they weren't the right religion, you would not want to join?
6. Do you mind if I check things out also? If I find something I think seems to prove they aren't the right religion, can I ask you about it? You won't get mad at me for asking? (this one is tricky. You don't want him to try to bring some other witness in. If he tries, say, "I want to know what you think. I trust you!!! Those other people are strangers!!!")
These are pretty safe questions. Don't get frustrated. He has been subject to mind control. He might sound dense sometimes. It is a defense mechanism. At any point, if he gets mad, BACK OFF!!! Time to re-assess.
Based on his answer to those questions, you will have a better idea how to proceed. Let us know what he says, and you will get some good ideas from the folks here on how to proceed. Again, don't do anything without checking here first. The nice thing about cults is they are very predictable. You can pretty much ask somebody here how your jw husband will respond, and they will be right most of the time. That is why I keep saying to check here first.
Someone else plugged Steven Hassans' books. I endorse them as well. Order them, but put them in the dustcover of another book or hide them. DON"T LET HIM SEE THEM (or any book that is anti jw)!!! Order those books RIGHT NOW!!! Why are you still reading this!!! Those are the most important books for you to get first because they tell you how to do this (help open his eyes). Don't try to do to much without reading, re-reading, and re-reading those books. Being a ubm is a high art. There are a few naturals out there like Jgnat. The rest of us need a book!
Keep us updated.
CYP
Here is a letter I wrote to my wife. It is a pretty good way for a male ubm to get a female jw to count the costs it will have on your marriage. Some folks used some of it. It didn't seem to work so good on male jw's.
I wouldn't try saying any of this directly on him right now. The point that you should take away is that there are some very destructive/toxic attitudes that will develop in him that stem from his idea that he has all the truth. You are going to have to confront those ideas. Also it might help you to understand and articulate some things you will be feeling if he goes back.
Glad to see you back CYP, take a little break? just saying hi. carla
Hi Mrs. Bee. I will try to answer your questions from Watchtower literature, which JWs believe comes straight from God.
They Dont Believe in Fate?
*** g99 8/8 p. 10 You Can Choose Your Future ***
Resorting to the idea of fate will get us nowhere. It does not illuminate the present or the future. Belief in a falsehood provides no real reassurance for the future. Neither does seeing God’s hand in every event.... the Holy Scriptures repeatedly emphasize that our future is linked to our endurance and our life course, which would have little meaning if things were already predestined. (Matthew 24:13; Luke 10:25-28) If, then, we choose to be obedient and faithful to God, what future can we expect?...our being blessed with life in Paradise does not depend on fate; it is to be enjoyed as a result of our obediently doing God’s will at this time. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8; Revelation 7:14, 15) God has given us free will and encourages us: "Choose life in order that you may keep alive." (Deuteronomy 30:19) What will your choice be? Rather than being left to fate, your future is in your hands.
*** g85 7/8 Fate—Does It Shape Your Future? ***
The Bible says that some events are predestined, but the destinies of individuals are not fixed.
Why do they not participate in their communities?
*** w60 8/15 p. 500 Maintaining Right Conduct Among the Nations ***
On a larger scale, in the community as a whole, Jehovah’s witnesses are recognized as a socially distinct and different group. Not only do they refrain from neighborhood gossip, spite fights and racial feuds; their godly neutrality also prohibits their participation in political revolutions, military exploits and so-called "brotherhood" or interfaith movements. They keep free from all party issues and social reforms. They take no part in charity drives, bazaars or community fund-raising campaigns. They do not support popular lotteries or gambling syndicates, even if such are "legalized" or operated by the State.
Why is it that they portray GOD as this evil vindictive presence where if you dont do what he wants you are doomed to death, but doesnt believe that he teaches you lessons because he is a loving GOD who would never want you to hurt?
*** w60 12/1 pp. 727-728 Separation and Divorce for the Sake of Peace ***
Privately he prays to God to forgive him, but he makes no real effort to control himself and correct himself. So he keeps on sinning, under the misimpression that God’s loving-kindness through Christ will cancel the sins that he enjoys committing, without regard for the purity and name of God’s congregation.
18 Such a man proves himself to be one of those spoken of in Jude 4: "Certain men have slipped in who have long ago been appointed by the Scriptures to the judgment described below, ungodly men, turning the undeserved kindness of our God into an excuse for loose conduct and proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ."
19 In God’s time this responsible traveling man is found out and exposed. His wife forgives him when he admits his wrong. But is her forgiveness of any avail? No! It is no shield for him from deserved consequences. He cannot transform himself overnight. His forced admission of guilt and his expressing of regret does not mean any real reformation. He is a danger in the midst of the congregations of God’s dedicated people, a powerful bit of leaven that can ferment the whole mass. He is a deliberate, confirmed defiler of what is holy. He is untrustworthy, a risk, an unfit man to have among us. According to Bible principles he must be disfellowshiped. God’s congregation must be cleansed and safeguarded, even though his wife forgives and does not divorce him.
*** w58 10/15 p. 614 What Will Armageddon Mean for You? *** Armageddon will be greater than any nuclear war fought on a global or even on a "space" scale. The Bible shows that Armageddon will be a war between gods and universal in scope. In it "Jehovah God, the Almighty," and the "Mighty God," his Son, Jesus Christ, will do battle with "the god of this system of things," Satan the Devil. Involved in that battle will be all intelligent creatures, seen and unseen... On Satan’s side will be all the rest of mankind, more than 99.9 percent.
Havent they been using that the world is getting bad/worse since their inception??
*** w74 2/15 p. 126 ‘Out of the Heart’s Abundance’ ***
"I told her many people felt the same way she did and were really concerned about the future. We discussed the fact that despite man’s efforts things do not improve but continually get worse. "I continued: ‘I don’t know if you read your Bible very much, but I read mine all the time. According to Jesus’ words, these critical times are in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Conditions are not going to get any better, but will even get worse.’
I read that they think that Cigarettes have something to do with SPIRITSM..Is that True?
*** yb81 p. 73 El Salvador ***
About this same time two sisters, Juana and Herminia Escobar, were found by Mary Nosal. Besides being deeply involved in spiritism, they, too, were chain smokers. One of them would put a cigarette behind her ear to light as soon as she was finished with the one she was smoking. They also had an entire wall of the house covered with images, which they greatly esteemed. But, in time, these two sisters took down their images, gave up smoking completely and separated from spiritism.
*** w73 6/1 p. 343 Keeping God’s Congregation Clean in the Time of His Judgment ***'
It is little wonder, then, that, in these days of widespread addiction to drugs and the growing use of tobacco, those indulging in such things should come under judicial observation. Jehovah God, the Supreme Judge, is at his spiritual temple and is specially scrutinizing those who profess to worship him in that holy place. He has promised to be a speedy witness against the sorcerers or the practicers of spiritism, which from ancient times onward had a connection with habit-forming, enslaving drugs.
***
g78 1/8 p. 28 Why Not Smoke? ***Nicotine addiction affects the mind detrimentally and produces enslavement. Hence, it may be classed with addictive drugs, such as those that provided the source for the Greek term pha·ma·ki´a, initially meaning "druggery." Due to the close connection between drug use and spiritism, this Greek word came to be associated with spiritistic practices. In fact, it was used by Bible writers and has been rendered "practice of spiritism" and "spiritistic practices" in passages that clearly condemn spiritism. (Gal. 5:20, 21; Rev. 9:20, 21) Therefore, persons who have not broken their addiction to tobacco do not qualify for baptism in symbol of an acceptable dedication to God.
Is Crisis of Conscience a good book for me even though I have never been a JW?
Absolutely.
How can he be married to me and love me as much as he does and not think about that if youre not a JW youre not going to survive Armageddon. Is he not worried about that?
*** w87 10/15 p. 29 Opening the Way to Increase in Gibraltar ***
In one case a young Witness, ignoring the counsel from the Author of marriage, started dating a local girl who was not a member of the congregation. But the patient help of the elders in the congregation made him think more seriously about the dangers involved. Finally, he approached his girlfriend and told her that although he felt strong affection for her, his Bible knowledge obligated him to terminate their relationship. ‘I want to marry a girl with whom I can live forever, not just for a few years,’ he explained.
He always says to me that your conscience is your bible based knowledge, do all of them think that??
*** g71 8/22 p. 28 "Happy Are the Pure in Heart" ***
Fear to displease God, a good conscience, grateful appreciation and the hope of everlasting life—how can you strengthen these? Jehovah God has provided three basic aids. One of these is his Word. Read it daily. Study it. (2 Tim. 3:16, 17) Another aid is God’s holy spirit, which aids you in understanding his Word and in strengthening your determination to have a pure heart. (Luke 11:13; 1 Cor. 2:9, 10) And God has also provided a visible organization, a "faithful and discreet slave" that provides spiritual food for you. It publishes Bible study aids and arranges for meetings where you can associate with fellow Christians who likewise are concerned with having pure hearts. (bold and italics added)
That took me about 15 minutes. Your guyfriend's been exposed to it for years. Think hard and deep, and all my best to you.
i dont see that reading cofc would do much for you as you may not understand the import of what hes saying, but it would do wonders for your hubby tho but most jws wont read anything thats not from the society! (in fact at our co visit tonight he gave a talk and said 'what would u do if your child was sent pornography tho the door? would u let them read it or would u rip it up and put it straight in the bin, obviously u would not even let him glance at it, so its the same with apostate literture!! but NOW its on the internet you must not look at it at all!! (see what youre up against!) )
i would tell him about this board but tell him u are on it to make your marriage stronger by understanding him, but subetly drop in 'whats this about the un?' and maybe '607' act all innocent but let him look, once the doubts are there it may stop him going back!
good luck. i think tho if u both have love that should be all that matters. x
Mrs Bee
JGnat knows exactly where you are coming from. I think you will be able to get a lot of help from her. Also like yourself she is a Christian... I wish you all the best and welcome to our little community!
MissPeaches
C_Y_P, I love your strategic mind. Misspeaches, your vote of confidence in my Christianity is wonderful, and much appreciated this week. I mean, I've had enough people question it that's for sure.
Mrs. Bee, I've seen you around, so I was pretty sure you were up on my history. I am a non-JW Christian Sunday School Teacher married to a JW. He's a sweet, sincere, bumbling man who got sucked in all the way before I got smart about the society. Now, when he is starting to have doubts, they tell him he's "invested too much" to walk away. They have him coming and going.
That's why I'd love to see you nip this one in the bud. Carefully. It'll save you years of anguish.
Why is it that they portray GOD as this evil vindictive presence where if you dont do what he wants you are doomed to death, but doesnt believe that he teaches you lessons because he is a loving GOD who would never want you to hurt?
There are plenty of scriptures to engender and reinforce such a mentality. The God of the Bible is not the nicest guy. And really JW's are hardly unique in having such a religious mentality. Look at the popularity of the Left Behind series of books. Many evangelical christians are just as anxious to see God do some massive violence to the world of humankind as JW's are, maybe even more so.
