praying for mass destruction and death

by Cognitive_Dissident 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  carla

  I really appreciate this post. As I cannot understand jw thinking about this subject at all. Husband claims jw's do not believe that everyone who is not jw will be destroyed. "We don't know who will be". But to me this sounds like the view for the 'public'. I know there are things in the literature that certainly do point to, and blatantly say the rest of us will be destroyed. When I ask him what that will be like for him, paradise with no friends or family around? He doesn't really believe we will be destroyed. How is that possible? Does he figure because we are related we get off the hook? He seems unable or unwilling to process the info of the wt where it pertains to his loved ones.

  He too relishes in the gloom & doom of the news. Sometimes more than others. I often wonder if we weren't around to stop him from watching gloom & doom shows on tv if he wouldn't watch exclusively those shows.

  I have told him how some jw's 'pick out houses' they would like after the big A. He thought that was sick. What do jw's think? God will somehow spare from destruction the houses they are interested in? I've seen the artwork from wt's. There are buildings being destroyed right along with non jw's. ( I particularily like the one that the people look like Will Smith, Dan Akroyd and the rest I can't remember)

  He once wrote me how he envisioned 'paradise'. My heart just sunk. It sounds so insane to a non jw you can't imagine!

  He says they don't pray for the destruction of the world just for jah's kingdom to come and everything will be made better. You mean AFTER you get to pick up the bones of your family and neighbors? AFTER you watch the birds literally eat out eyeballs and such? No comment. No comment when you ask about how life will really be in cleaning up the mess. On one hand they say God will provide and on the other they will be responsible for cleaning up Armageddon. With God's help of course.

  sorry, I'm rambling.

  carla
• 

  Hellrider

  Carla, I`m sorry if I`m butting in here, but your post and situation sounds so interesting, I just wanted to give you some advice (if you really want to understand more of this, and get to the bottom of the thoughts of your husband on this):

  "We don't know who will be". But to me this sounds like the view for the 'public'

  You`re absolutely right. It IS the view for the public!

  He doesn't really believe we will be destroyed. How is that possible? Does he figure because we are related we get off the hook? He seems unable or unwilling to process the info of the wt where it pertains to his loved ones.

  ...no, if he truly believes (and it really sounds like he does...), he doesn`t think you`re going to get off the hook. At least I don`t think so. Maybe he has a hope, deep down, that you will eventually embrace his truth, go to KH, get baptised etc. He`s probably put a lot of thought into this, and knows that you`re not going to get off the hook!! I am pretty sure he doesn`t believe that you will, and if he ever says so, its probably also a "view for the public"! I`m sorry to have to tell you this, but that`s what i think. And if you have children under the age of 14-15, he`s probably betting on that they get to enter paradise with him, as "children ride on their parents tickets". I doubt that he is "unwilling to process the info of the wt where it pertains to his loved ones". It just doesn`t sound right to me. Of course I could be wrong, but I strongly suggest you ask him about this.

  He too relishes in the gloom & doom of the news

  Of course he does. I think JWs do that even more now, than before 1995. The "end signs" became so much more important after they changed the meaning of the term "generation".

  He says they don't pray for the destruction of the world just for jah's kingdom to come and everything will be made better

  Ask him how they expect for Jehovahs kingdom to come without an all-consuming, apocalyptic orgy of mass-murder and bloodfeast to clear the way for that Kingdom. Ask him if he don`t, deep down, look forward for that day to come. And then ask him how he can look forward to a day when you, his wife, is going to be killed!

  You mean AFTER you get to pick up the bones of your family and neighbors? AFTER you watch the birds literally eat out eyeballs and such? No comment. ; No comment when you ask about how life will really be in cleaning up the mess. On one hand they say God will provide and on the other they will be responsible for cleaning up Armageddon

  They truly believe they will be put in charge of cleaning up the mess! It`s completely sick, not to mention inlogical. If God can kill all the people of the earth (almost 6 billion) in the blink of an eye, why would he put the survivors in charge of cleaning up the mess? And one more thing: They probably think about THIS part of the doctrine with some sick, fearful fascination/gloating etc, you know, "interestingly sick". Sends shivers down their spines. Needless to say, none of these "survivors" has any idea what it`s like to see/touch a dead body. Most people don`t, and JWs in particular don`t. They don`t serve in the army, and they don`t go hunting. Hence, they will very rarely get to see a corpse, whether it be human or animal. I do some hunting. Not often, and mostly duck.hunting, but I have held the head of a dead elk in my hands. The first time you hold something dead in you`re hands (and I`ve even only held dead animals in my hands, never humans, thank God!), it`s not "interesting" or "fascinating" at all, it`s just sad and scary. And slightly disgusting. It`s nothing at all like what they expect it to be like.
• 

  carla

  Thanks for your thoughts. It is truly assinine, the idea that God could wipe out everything but yet needs the help of jw's to clean up worldwide destruction. They don't want to think about the reality of actually seeing the horror of rotting, stinking bodies. And to think they were your friends, family, neighbors is too much to visualize.

  I'm sure he does hold out some small hope of me joining up. Small it would have to be. Considering the conversations we have already had. I think he can't bring himself to actually say, 'yes, you will be killed and I do pray for the day to come'. Maybe he doesn't put two and two together. (unlikely)

  Try and have a discussion and he will bring up some OT script that in my mind has no connection whatsoever to the topic! But, we all know how that goes.

  I do think he has a difficult time with many things. Often when he is unable to answer or maybe just can't articulate his thought it is because he knows it is not a Christian attitude and cannot think of the wt canned answer for it. But, he knows the basic understanding of the wt and just KNOWS they are God's org here on earth. So, they must be right even if his own conscience tells him otherwise. Or the ever famous, 'well, that's old, nobody would say something like that now'. Nevermind, it is already in the collective consciousness of the entire body of jw's.

  thanks for your thoughts,

  carla
• 

  Daunt

  I feel that most JW's accept armeggedon but they just never take the time to really think about armeggedon. They don't think that, "man any second the co-worker that I have had so much fun with might die a horrible death any second." But they do think about, "Oh the kingdom will come any second now". This is classic double think in action and it's a good example of it. If you catch a JW and bring out their true emotions about the armeggedon then lean them over to say the second quote I just put down, they might realise how messed up their view is. But other than that, most people just don't make the connection.
• 

  DanTheMan

  I think Daunt expresses the outlook of your average JW perfectly. They eagerly await the day when Jehovah will "destroy this old system" and bring a "righteous new order" to the world. And the whole point of the preaching work is to get "right-hearted" people onto the "spiritual ark" that will survive the end of "this old system". Their true beliefs are hidden in plain sight behind a smokescreen of euphemistic language that serves to obscure what is an extremely violent religious outlook.
• 

  talesin

  Yes, Daunt, I agree.

  Many years after I was DFd, I brought this up to my parents. I asked them how they can reconcile that the nice 'worldly' people they know who lead exemplary lives (by their standards) would be destroyed at Harmageddon, and all the hypocrite JWs they know (and I elaborated, so-and-so who is a drunkard, and so-and-so who cheated Brother so-and-so in business, etc.) will be saved?

  They had a hard time coming to grips with it on a personal level, still, they turned it around "Jehovah knows what is in our hearts, and when the time comes, he will judge who is saved."

  tal
• 

  carla

  tailsin,

  I couldn't agree with you more how your conversation went with your parents. It could have taken place in my home! He sometimes answers that, 'jah knows what's in peoples heart', or that 'yes, they (jw's) may have sinned as we all fall short, but, still they were out there proclaiming the name of jehovah'. good grief!
• 

  anewme

  But remember, it is not only the JWs who pray the Lord's prayer, "thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven." Bible readers in many religious sects believe the things written in the scriptures. Christendom goes so far as to predict the literal burning and scorching of the earth.
  Who gave us this prayer? Who wrote the Bible? Not the witnesses. Like others they are only trying to figure out what the message of the Bible is to humankind.
  
  What I think is possible is that too much attention on the Revelation destruction is putting some tender psyches out of kilter. If one was reading the Bible on one's own, would there be such emphasis placed on mass destruction?
  Probably not. The problem is with the literature and talk programs that feature the Revelation misery which in my opinion is not the proper emphasis for sensitive caring individuals.
  These subjects should have R ratings for violence.
  I think to say that Witnesses enjoy thinking about the death of millions is not exactly true. To say they sound alarmingly callous to the death of others, is probably true. They are only trying to remind themselves to be good so they wont suffer the same. What else can they do when they are believing what the scriptures are saying? Shall we ban Bible reading? I think that has been tried.
  
  I cherish the Bible's message but I do not focus on God's judgement. I'm sure Jesus did not either.
  It is not healthy to do that. So if literature makes you uneasy when it discusses Revelation, just skip it.
  If a man is having difficulty giving talks on all that stuff, then step down.
  A man does not have to be an elder.
  A woman does not have to be a full time preacher.
  Give yourself a healthy break and focus on God's love and not on his method to bring about the kingdom.
  I recommend simplifying your approach to the truth.
  Pick and choose what literature you will read, or read none of it and only the lovely Bible parts that bring you joy. Focus on Jehovah's magnificence!
• 

  Darth Yhwh

  As a kid I used to pray for the “new system’s” arrival. Not realizing it at the time I was indeed praying for mass murder via the natural disaster tactics that Jehovah was planning to use to bring about the cleansing of the world. It kind of reminds me of the Tool song Ænema. Not my favorite from them but here’s some of the lyrics: Cuz I'm praying for rain And I'm praying for tidal waves
  I wanna see the ground give way.
  I wanna watch it all go down.
  Mom please flush it all away.
  I wanna watch it go right in and down.
  I wanna watch it go right in.
  Watch you flush it all away.
• 

  talesin

  What I think is possible is that too much attention on the Revelation destruction is putting some tender psyches out of kilter. If one was reading the Bible on one's own, would there be such emphasis placed on mass destruction?

  anewme,

  I strongly disagree. My psyche is far from tender.

  JWs are not reading the Bible on their own, and their emphasis is placed on mass destruction.

  It's astonishing and revolting to normal people when they realize that the Witnesses pray for the death of their loved ones, for Harmaggedon to come soon, so they can revel in a perfect paradise after their brother/sister/child/parent is annihilated in a fiery destruction of the 'world'.

  carla,

  I don't know how you live with it. It's hard enough for me to look my parents in the eye these days; if it was my husband, I don't think I could do it. {{{{many hugs}}}}

  t