Only the special education students, the so-called "slow" ones.
Clarification needed about US education system
by ballistic 29 Replies latest jw friends
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Reefton Jack
Further to Blondie's comments about the WTS concerned about how attending university places ones faith at risk:
- This just shows how narrow minded the WTS is.
- i.e University will damage a kid's faith, but supposedly learning a practical trade by means of on the job training will not . (I well remember the stern warning I received from the elders when I was about to complete high school - about what universities are like "these days").
- The reality is, a young person will encounter just as many challenges to their "faith" while undergoing on the job training, as they will encounter at university.
e.g Hard drinking workmates, pornography on open display, loose women (anything I haven't missed here?)
I know - been there and done that!
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blondie
Very good point, Reefton, that the WTS likes to overlook.
Blondie
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jeeprube
- The reality is, a young person will encounter just as many challenges to their "faith" while undergoing on the job training, as they will encounter at university.
e.g Hard drinking workmates, pornography on open display, loose women (anything I haven't missed here?)
I know - been there and done that!
Totally agree. I myself went through trade school as my brother headed off to college. We were exposed to the same things. Just goes to show how out of touch with reality the GB is. What would you expect from a group of guys who think beards and jeans on women are wrong?
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ballistic
My main point to this thread was that the same message sent to many countries had different affects. I was growing up in the 80's when we were told to pioneer from "school" and "school" in England meant 16.
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Reefton Jack
Ballistic - quite true.
The "pioneer from finish of school" advice was interpreted exactly the same way in New Zealand as you describe it happening in the UK:
- only the school leaving age was 15!
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blondie
In the US, as I posted, JW children were expected to finish HS and receive a diploma or the equivalent, GED. Of course, they could quit earlier but would find it hard to get a job.
I can think of only one person during the 70's who quit school without graduating to pioneer and they lived to regret it. Notice how the WTS talks out of both sides of its mouth below.
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w70 8/1 pp. 479-480 Questions from Readers• Young Christians attending public school face many problems because of growing delinquency, immorality, nationalism, and so forth. Hence, when one has completed the minimum schooling required by law, would it be advisable to leave school and devote more time to the ministry, or should one finish the normal basic schooling?—D. B., U.S.A.
Customs and legal requirements about schooling vary from country to country. In some lands a set amount of schooling is compulsory for all children, with little or no provision for one to leave earlier. In other lands only a couple of years of schooling (or none at all) are compulsory, most education being left up to the individual to be obtained as circumstances allow.
In the United States of America a student usually attends elementary school for seven or eight years (differing from state to state) and then a secondary (high) school for about four years. The laws of most states rule that a youth must attend until he graduates from high school, or until age sixteen. However, even though one can leave school at sixteen if the parents approve, the majority of youths attend until graduation at about age eighteen. The following discussion will deal primarily with the United States of America, since that is what the questioner is interested in, but likely many of the points and principles presented will apply to some extent in other lands also.
Proper knowledge and education are fine things. Christian parents are interested in the education of their children. In accord with God’s directions, they personally instruct and train their offspring in many fields, including the Bible, true worship, home responsibilities and proper conduct. (Eph. 6:4; Prov. 22:6) The Theocratic Ministry School and other meetings in each congregation of Jehovah’s witnesses have been invaluable aids to young Christians, developing in them abilities and poise that often make them above average for their age. But where there are public schools available most Christian parents also want their children to get a reasonable secular education, feeling that the specialized training to read and write well and education in subjects such as geography and history may assist them as Christian ministers. Also, some secular education and training may prepare them for an occupation, something they may need to support themselves and their families.—1 Tim. 5:8.
‘But how long should a child go to school?’ persons might ask. The parents must decide that. (Prov. 6:20; 23:22; Eph. 5:22-24) If the law of the land requires a certain number of years of schooling, Christians know that they are to "be obedient to governments and authorities as rulers." (Titus 3:1) But if the legal minimum has been met, the parents have to determine what the child will do. Perhaps sickness or dire financial pressure in the family requires that a young man or woman get a job. On the other hand, the parents might direct the minor to attend the extra year or two of school so as to graduate and receive a diploma, as is the custom in the land. Parents and youths can discuss the matter, but the Bible gives the parents, particularly the father, the deciding voice, and the minor Christian should recognize that.—Col. 3:18, 20.
As indicated in the inquiry, many Christians realize that in some schools violence, immorality, use of drugs and disrespect for authority are increasing rapidly. Does this situation warrant removing a youth from school as soon as that is legally possible? A few parents have concluded, ‘Yes,’ and have done so. They are not to be criticized for their decision. Others have moved their children to another public school where such problems are not as bad. But we must face the fact that conditions in the world in general are getting worse. The only way to avoid such things altogether would be to get out of the world, and we cannot do that. (1 Cor. 5:10) Would leaving school and obtaining a secular job completely eliminate the problem? Likely not. Fellow employees may be considerably more experienced and proficient at seduction than fellow students. A Canadian report indicated that two-thirds of all employees are either basically dishonest or would be dishonest if given the opportunity. An American report said that three out of every four companies with fifty or more employees may have a drug-abuse problem. Consequently, all Christians—whether in school or not—have to strive to remain morally clean, to avoid situations that might involve violence and to remain spiritually strong.
Numerous young persons have written to us expressing a commendable desire to expand their activity as Christian ministers in the last days of this system of things. (2 Tim. 3:1; 4:5; 1 Tim. 4:16) Some have commented that if they left school early they might be able to do that as pioneer ministers. By self-scrutiny such ones can consider: Is it really a fuller share in the ministry that you want? Have you consistently demonstrated that this is your sincere, consuming desire by sharing in the ministry at every opportunity, including during holidays and vacations when you can serve as a vacation pioneer minister? A young Christian in school has a basically untouched field for witnessing about the Bible, because when Jehovah’s witnesses in their house-to-house ministry meet a youth they usually ask for and speak to the parents if they are at home. So, do you regularly and actively witness about God to fellow students, expanding your ministry all you can in that way? The decision of whether you will continue in school rests with your parents, and primarily your father. But whatever the decision is, you can follow through on your desire to speak about God at every opportunity.
Youth is a time to serve Jehovah. (Eccl. 12:1) It is also the usual time for one to learn things that may be quite necessary in adult life. It was the custom among the Jews for every lad to learn a trade or some form of useful employment, even if advanced education in the Law was planned. The Jewish view was that he who failed to teach his child a trade was teaching the youth to be a thief. Thus Saul of Tarsus learned the trade of tentmaking even though, before becoming a Christian, he was educated as a pupil of Gamaliel. (Acts 18:3; 22:3) Today the public schools are often the place where one begins to learn a trade or means of supporting oneself, whether it be carpentry, accounting, installation of electrical equipment, typing, printing, welding or some other occupation.
‘But you have not pointedly said whether my youngster should complete his basic education in school or not,’ someone might think. Precisely so, for it is not our place to do so or even to recommend either quitting or continuing in school. God has authorized the individual parents to direct their children in such matters, and we cannot ignore His authorization. This is a serious matter, and parents should make it a matter of prayer and should ponder it with care. (Phil. 4:6) Then they alone will have to make a decision as to what their own children will do.
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ballistic
blondie, I appreciate the quotes, but can you say what the effect was on different countries from experience. In the 80's I felt that meant that education was almost a bad thing.
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blondie
I live in a university town and a government center for 5 levels of government. From time immemorial, there have been many JW students that went to school wirth various explanations: father not a JW and required it, lived at home, went to school AND pioneered, were selective about what their major was so it wasn't faith-destroying, etc. So the perception was very different than say in a rural town where even there few kids in the non-JW community had aspirations of going to college.
Most, almost all JWs, in this area finished the required 13 years through HS (includes kindergarten). Some JWs took the maximum number of credits each year in HS and so graduated 1 year earlier but had a diploma. It is possible to go to the local tech school/community college for a year and get an associate degree. They are fairly good about matching student with employer too.
There are strict laws here regarding employment of minors (under 18), hour limits, type of job limits, not working late or overnight, etc.
My impression is that people in the UK have fewer years in school required of them. I don't even know what types of jobs are available with that level of education.
In this area I have seen firefighters, registered nurses, real estate agents, lawyers, accountants (not CPAs though), electrical engineers, carpenters, electricians, drywallers, plumbers, mechanical engineers, architects. Some went to college, some to trade school, some learned on the job and had a special school such as the firefighters. There are few window cleaners or office cleaners.
Because of the local JW philosphy, the teenagers from my era have pretty decent jobs.
What I find has been more damaging to the job opportunities of JW children is home schooling. The parents lack the skills, time, and stick to it tiveness for such an undertaking.
Blondie
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TresHappy
When my grandmother went to high school, they only went to 11th grade. She was born in 1915 and graduated in 1932.