Why are the JW's so bad? (page 2)

neyank

Hi DF,
I don't think many here hate individual JWs.
It's more of a hate for any high control group.
And yes, the WTS does fall into the catagory of high control groups.

"I've researched on my own and have come to the conclusion that they are right."
All of us that haven't been brought up a JW have said the same thing.
We've all done our own research, at least that's what we thought.

The thing is,the research was done with thier material,looking at the info. thru the eyes of
the WTS.

What will they say to you if you tell them you want to read the Bible on your own?

What will they say to you if you tell them you want to check out thier past teachings?

You said, every argument you hear against them makes you believe that they are right.

So all of the information that is out on the WTS, the failed prophecies, the changes in
thier teachings over the years, the fact that they claim that they (WTBTS) are Gods
chosen org. and yet have gotten so many things wrong mean nothing to you?

Well then. There is nothing anyone can say to you.
You're going to learn the hard way.
OK. We'll see you back here sometime asking more questions and looking
for advice.

Just remember. All you have to do is open your eyes.
There's plenty of info with plenty of proof out there about the WTS.

neyank

zev

ask your study conductor a pointed question or two.
have you read other books? or just jw ones?

Francois

DF, you don't know anything for a fact. You are a wet behind the ears JW "study" who believes what you are told. If you will close your mouth and open your eyes, ears, and mind the people here may be able to save you from yourself.

If not, I suggest you leave here, never come back, plunge yourself into the JWs, ... and learn for yourself the hard way what you could have learned here painlessly.

Can you spell gullible?

DF

Okay... I have read the bible on my own.

I reasearched it and looked into other sources, and I still have come to the conclusion that many of the JW's teachings are true.

ianao

DF:

I don't find anything wrong with witnesses except that they are duped on a much grander scale than any Jimmy Swaggart could ever come up with. If you believe that they are right, then go right on ahead and believe so. Just don't scrutinize it too much, as you may disappoint yourself.

terraly

Hey DF,

That's great that you've made up your own mind after careful consideration. Now many here will respectfully disagree with you on our conclusions about Witness dogma, and that's great too.

The trouble lies in that fact that Witnesses are encouraged to be critical of everyone else's ideas- join the Witnesses- and then shut off their mind. Having made a decision at some point in their life they are in deep trouble (disfellowhipped and severed from all their Witness friends) if they ever reconsider this decision.

Ideally, I feel this is not the way beliefs should be decided. An open mind should be kept at all time, and I hope you will continue to have an open mind even if you do join the Witnesses. One great way to do that is come here. There are lots of intelligent people who would be very willing to debate you on some of these dogmas- and this is an important learning process.

Afterall, is it really fair to make a decision based on information presented almost exclusively from one side (the Witness one). You will probably protest that you've already looked up outside sources, but are they the ones which best make the other side's case? Stick around and join in or start some debates- get exposed to what the other side really thinks, and then make your choice.

Surely it's foolish to discard the first-hand experience of people who have actually been inside the movement? Take the posts of people on this board too, combine it with what you observe in your congregation- ask the tough questions.

Do not try to convince yourself that this is the truth- try to find out if it is.

AlanF

To DF:

: I reasearched it and looked into other sources, and I still have come to the conclusion that many of the JW's teachings are true.

Some teachings are true. Others are not.

You've been taught only some things from the Bible that the JWs generally have pretty good arguments for. You've been carefully shielded from everything that they have no or lousy arguments for. Here are some examples:

No justification for the claim that Matthew 24:45 refers to JW leaders.
Extremely poor and demonstrably false arguments about the 1914 chronology, blood transfusions, basis for "faithful slave" doctrine.
Horribly bad teachings about creation/evolution issue as shown in their 1985 Creation book.

It's trivially easy to demonstrate that JWs know that they have bad arguments about these things. You go ahead and find out more details about any of the above (you can get massive amounts of detail by asking on this website), and then present your JW friend with the problematic points. Unless he's completely out of it, his first reaction will be, "Have you been talking with apostates?!" If he gets past that point, 10 to 1 he won't have a clue how to answer, but will go to his elders and see if they have answers. He may have trouble getting past that "talking with apostates" thing with them. If he does, the elders won't have any real answers, but will encourage him to get you to put your questions aside long enough for you to get baptized. The hope is that you'll have enough sense not to ask those questions after that. If you persist in asking them, then you'll be disfellowshipped.

You probably don't believe what I'm telling you, but I've been associated one way or another with the JWs my entire life, and I know perfectly well how they operate. All you have to do to confirm or disconfirm the claims you're reading is to do what I've suggested above. If you don't, then you're perfect JW material and you might as well leave this board right now.

AlanF

sf

Dear Jeff,

Did you write this?:

< http://www.gospelcom.net/apologeticsindex/t01.html

Sincerely, sKally

RunningMan

I agree that they are right on certain matters. For instance, immortality
of the soul, hellfire, nationalism, etc. However there are many different
views on all of these, and really, until you die, you will not know for sure
if you have an immortal soul.

But stand back and take an objective look at what they believe. Their
overriding belief, the one that sets them apart from all other religions,
is the belief that the time of the end began in 1914 and that soon the
world will come to an end. They believe there are two classes of people -
priviledged ones who will rule as kings, and others who will live on earth.
They believe that 99.9% of the world's population will be murdered by God.
They have made numerous predictions in the past. Not a single one of them
has come true.

Does this sound right to you?

More than anything, take the time to read some books that present the
other side. Ray Franz's "Crisis of Concience" is the best. Ask your conductor
if he will read it. He won't. Any group that tries to prevent you from hearing
opposing views has something to hide.

Finally, if they are right, why do they need to use coersive tactics? They will
hide them now, but believe me, they will bring them out after you are hooked.

All I can say is, do your research before you join.

Sunchild

DF, I was where you are once. You still have time to walk away, which means that you're in an excellent position. I wish that someone had told me this before I decided to get baptized. So, I'm telling you now what I wish I had known.

When you first start studying, everything looks so sensible and Scriptural and perfect, and it seems to obvious that what you're learning is the Truth. But just give it a few more years. Wait until after you've been baptized and all of the unwritten rules kick in. If you're really determined to be a good, faithful JW like I was, there's a pretty decent chance that your life will end up being ruled by guilt and fear and a feeling of never measuring up, and you'll end up blaming yourself. You'll hate yourself. You'll believe that Satan is lurking under every rock and tree. You'll sink into a chronic depression that could last for years, and you'll blame it on "this system" or your own inherent corruption. And if you really ARE like me, you'll end up wishing you were dead.

That's the abridged version of my JW experience, which I thankfully ended over a year ago. If you'd like the long version, please e-mail me. But just believe me when I say that you never really know what you're getting into with the JWs until it's too late to change your mind without being punished by them for it. Yes, there are some people who are perfectly and genuinely happy living their lives as Witnesses. But you would be surprised to know how many there are who are just like I was, always wearing a smiling mask to hide the misery they felt to avoid "damaging Jehovah's reputation." After all, letting outsiders see that not all JWs are happy (and that many are depressed) could make potential converts like you realize that "Jehovah's Organization" is really nothing special.

In other words, my friend, consider the path that you've chosen very, very carefully before you make any commitments.

*Rochelle.

---------
http://www.dreamsphere.net/ -- See it, live it, wear it.
"Most men complacently accept 'knowledge' as 'truth'. They are sheep, ruled by fear."
-- Sydney Losstarot, "Vagrant Story."

Why are the JW's so bad?

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