Update to my meeting with an elder

Goldminer

First of all,sorry for being so late with my update.My wife got up at 8 am this morning so I didn't have the opportunity to be alone for a while.

As for the meeting last night,the elder was very civil,actually commended me for writing my questions down.He never made threaths,asked me if I read apostate material or if I still considered myself a JW.

We started with the 607 question.He will not believe any research beyond the WT's but said he'd do more research on it(all WT) so I guess that will go no where.He believes that CTR got it right by using the bible so I told him if it was figured out 130 years ago,it should be very simple to explain today.The only time he looked stunned was when I showed him from the WT that they once believed that Jesus' presence began in 1874.He said he had never read that and tried to walk around it even when I asked him if Jehovah wanted his people to believe something that wasn't true.

We beat around a few other questions with nothing concrete coming out of it.He did take my list home with him and said he'd look at them more carefully to get some scriptural answers.I also got the feeling that my wife got a spiritual boost from his visit which was very disheartening to me.Anyways,I'm going to work on this 607 thing and see how things go.My wife asked me if I felt like we got somewhere and I said NO.Beibg told that something is the truth just because the WT says so just doesn't convince me anymore.

I'm attaching my questions,hopefully they show up here.Thanks everybody,I feel really down,like I'm wasting my time.I've been wanting to run from this religion for years and here I am still fighting to prove my points.

Goldminer

p.s.-question files won't load-sorry

AK - Jeff

Goldminer - Good for you. Success in convincing others is not connected with your having a clear conscience and good intent. Witnesses are all mindwashed, as was I for a very long time.

This elder likely will not hear what you say. But at least you got to make a case. That is more than many of us get to do before they shut us down completely.

Good Job.

Jeff

GetBusyLiving

Hey Goldminer, have you read "The Gentile Times Reconsidered"? It goes into intense detail of how painfully wrong the Watchtower is on the 607 date. Also it explains how the argument that 607 for the destruction of Jerusalem is NOT Bible based. Sounds like it would be perfect fro you. You can order it from Ray Franz's website or Amazon..

GBL

GoingGoingGone

Goldminer - Don't feel too down, you said your piece and your wife heard it. She may not react to it the way you were hoping now, but the information you presented is in her brain somewhere. At some point, something else may very well trigger her to confront it.

In the meantime, we're all pulling for you!!

GGG

garybuss

I like Don Cameron's question for a Jehovah's Witness. Here it is.

If the Society does not claim to be a *real* prophet; a true prophet - then wouldn't that mean that there isn't *any* actual prophet on earth today? The only other source of prophets would be "Babylon the Great," wouldn't it? Isn't the Watchtower Society the only possible source of a real prophet? But if they deny being such a prophet, then wouldn't that mean that there isn't one single prophet on earth today? (Don Cameron)

ringo5

The only time he looked stunned was when I showed him from the WT that they once believed that Jesus' presence began in 1874

Nathan Natas

In 1877, Russell joined Nelson H. Barbour in publishing the book Three Worlds, and the Harvest of This World. It indicated that the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 would be preceded by a forty-year period to open with a three-and-a-half-year harvest beginning in 1874 C.E. According to Bible chronology thereafter adopted, it was understood that 6,000 years of man’s existence on earth ended in 1872, whereas six millenniums of human sin concluded and the seventh millennium began in 1874. Christ’s presence was thought to have begun in October 1874, at the start of the great antitypical Jubilee.—Lev. chap. 25; Rev. 20:4.
-- The WATCHTOWER, August 15, 1974, pages 506-507 "No Spiritual “Energy Crisis” for Discreet Ones"

Nathan Natas

Also the 1993 book, "Jehovah's Witnesses Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" says

Russell had shied away from Biblical time prophecies. Now, however, he wondered: "Could it be that the time prophecies which I had so long despised, because of their misuse by Adventists, were really meant to indicate when the Lord would be invisibly present to set up his Kingdom?" With his insatiable thirst for Scriptural truth, Russell had to learn more. So he arranged to meet with Barbour in Philadelphia. This meeting confirmed their agreement on a number of Bible teachings and provided an opportunity for them to exchange views. "When we first met," Russell later stated, "he had much to learn from me on the fulness of restitution based upon the sufficiency of the ransom given for all, as I had much to learn from him concerning time." Barbour succeeded in convincing Russell that Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874. -- pages 46 & 47

Note that they attempt to blame Barbour for this. Why wasn't Chucky able to discern the truth before he died? He wasn't. When he (CTR) died on Halloween 1916, he still believed that 1874 was the date.

Goldminer

Thank you for the comments and support to date.I have tried getting the book The gentile Times reconsidered but it's unavailable through chapters here.If I mail-order it I run the risk my wife could pick it up,then I'm up the creek.

As soon as I get enough time alone I'll print all my questions for you all so you can help me out.

Goldminer

avishai

Can anyone get him leolaia's K.I.S.S thread, which disprove's 607 using the society's own literature? It rocks

Update to my meeting with an elder

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