by ithinkisee 29 Replies latest members private
i'm atheist, but i can switch my mind back to christian without a problem ;-)
Heheh. Not saying ALL of you are like that. Some like to take cheap shots and then run away. It dilutes the topic when that happens.
Naw ... guys like you and Tetrapod are the ones that help me keep an open mind to stuff like that.
But like I said ... babysteps.
-ithinkisee
I have enjoyed attending non-denominational Christian churches. I am not interested in belonging to an organization anymore. The church that I have been attending for the past year emphasizes the personal relationship with Christ, how that relationship affects your daily life, and reaching out to share the message with others. Our church has no organizational connections yet we get involved in missionary activities around the world as well as our own community. We have sponsored building houses in Mexico and churches in Nepal. We recently sent a team from our church to spend three weeks in Cuba.
I have never heard a sermon about the worsening world conditions being a sign of the last days. I have never heard a sermon about hellfire. And although I believe the pastor accepts the trinity, it is never mentioned. If you are interested in Christianity I think that the non-denominational route is a very good one.
but it is just sad that JW's in general are so far removed from world events - basically uncaring.
This may change in time. I can't add anything to what other's have said. The media hypes what gets them viewers. This is why it is a rare day for me to watch "network" news.
Without getting too deep how does a Christian deal with the hypocrisy of many Christian leaders (Pat Robertson comes to mind ... lol). Do I just remind my wife that it is a personal relationship with Jesus and that these guys are basically crazy?
As she begins to realize the hypocrisy and outright lies of the WTS and its leaders, it should be easy to explain that of Christendom's. I think what you should watch for is a feeling of being completely lost. There are no external guides you may trust completely. Only the personal relationship with the Divine (God, Jesus, whatever) is real.
Most Christian sects don't have a problem with supporting their own goverment. JHVH used governments for His own purposes many, many times, esp. in the OT. WTS seems to somehow make excuses for this and deny JWs from supporting political stances, etc. Biblically, there is no basis for it. Or at least, there is conflicting information.
You don't sound retarded at all. You sound quite a bit like I would expect one to sound in your position. You and your wife both have earned my utmost respect.
ithinkisee
Don't worry, snide comments on hold. I was once where you are.
Without getting too deep how does a Christian deal with the hypocrisy of many Christian leaders (Pat Robertson comes to mind ... lol). Do I just remind my wife that it is a personal relationship with Jesus and that these guys are basically crazy?
Yes, it is that simple. Christian is a label, just like plumber or doctor. You have plumbers who are good, and doctors who are good. You also have doctors and plumbers who are incompetent, bigotted, sloppy and dishonest.
Read James, it's all about not judging other individuals. People should worry about how they are doing and not about finger pointing at bad examples who any reasonable person would see as not being representative.
On that note, how would I answer regarding war, and politics, and so forth - when the Scriptures do seem to point to unfavorable alliances between religion and government - or am I still thinking too much like a JW and reading too much into "Babylon The Great's" fornication with government?
You are assuming that the scriptual interpretation you have been using is better than the half dozen you can find on 'any street corner'. You have been in what is broadly described as an adventist movement - one that basically says 'the end is coming', and uses all sorts of scriptual 'proofs' to back up their argument.
Obviously you are well aware that JW's along with other adventist faiths who have made date-specific prophecies, have all, every single one, been wrong. Statistically speaking if one says there have been 1,000 predictions based upon the Bible of the world ending, none of which have been right, then the chance a prediction for a future date based upon the saem level of proof is 0 divided by 1,000; or zero.
Attempts to link current governments, or crime, or 'young people nowadays' to supposed prophecies concerning the end-of-the-world are just the 'back story' used to flesh-out the end-of-the-world prophecy.
Look at the rubbish over earthquakes that Witnesses spout, or the now-forgotten applications of 'King of the North' and 'King of the South' to the cold war.
Any faith that means people will not get involved and do what they can (even if this is just being informed about world affairs and voting accordingly), is one where people actually turn their back on their fellow man on the basis of an unsubstansiatable prophecy that, on the basis of those that went before it, is just as likely to be a failure due to it being based upon man's vanity (of knowing what god thinks) rather than an actual message about the world ending in the Bible.
Thus adventist, isolationist religions actually fail in a very noticable fashion when it comes to showing love to their neighbour.
In the afterlife, apparently we get looked after. We have to look after each other in this life.
Do I sound completely retarded?
So my question is .... what are some things I can say to her when atrocious things are shown on the news, and the glut of bad news the evening news seems to focus on?
Whatever the issue was (war, famine, etc.), could you then use it as an opportunity to research together to determine if the news story is showing something unique in human history? I was astounded to learn that society has not gotten worse over the centuries.
how does a Christian deal with the hypocrisy of many Christian leaders (Pat Robertson comes to mind ... lol). Do I just remind my wife that it is a personal relationship with Jesus and that these guys are basically crazy?
Well I used to be a Christian. I chalked it up to the fact that every single group of humans has corruption and crazies. Perhaps focus on the idea that the bible doesn’t say there will be a specific organization, so there’s no need to lose faith in god over individual humans’ bad acts.
Some good replies here.
Gyles:
In the afterlife, apparently we get looked after. We have to look after each other in this life.
And hopefully that should be something that everyone can agree on, regardless of beliefs or lack thereof
Gyles:In the afterlife, apparently we get looked after. We have to look after each other in this life.And hopefully that should be something that everyone can agree on, regardless of beliefs or lack thereof
---"On that note, how would I answer regarding war, and politics, and so forth - when the Scriptures do seem to point to unfavorable alliances between religion and government - or am I still thinking too much like a JW and reading too much into "Babylon The Great's" fornication with government?"---
That's one prophecy that's been fulfilled from before it was written until now. Religion and government have never gone together well, seems to always have caused trouble. Whether it's a religious government, or government and religion opposed, it's been throughout history. Not much of a prophecy.
About news of crime. It's been brought out that in our time we just hear so much more about what happens. Doesn't mean bad things happen more now, just that we hear about every little thing.
Today's big news here is that some guy last night pulled into a Walmart parking lot and shot and killed two employees who were gathering carts and then went home. He had no relationship with them, just random mindless violence. But look at the laws in the Bible 3,000 years ago, mindless violence went on then and has been going on ever since people have been on earth. Could you imagine if they had television news then? Think of all the sick things you'd hear about every day. No different than now, except probably much worse.
Thom, thanks for that. I do think I tend to overthink these things at times.
-ithinkisee
Just a thought, but if she's noticing the news more now than before, it might start to reinforce the "Satan's system of things" thinking. So perhaps look out for positive news stories to share with her.
I'm really excited for you both, I eagerly await the next update! :)
