romans 6 vs 9 (page 2)

ozziepost

Stilla,

You're too quick with the QED's!!!

Ozzie

MerryMagdalene

I don't quite see the problem, unless my take on this is quite mistaken...

Spirit is immortal. The immortal clothed itself in a physical form, allowed that form to be destroyed or given over to death as an atoning sacrifice, then raised the physical body up again and transformed it, making it immortal along with the spirit once again inhabiting it, as he said he would do in John 3:19, 21.

~Merry

Shining One

If Jesus is not God then perhaps you'd like to try to answer this?

http://www.carm.org/doctrine/obj_Jesusdied.htm

Get over it. The Bible predicted that the Messiah would be God, Jesus claimed to be God, the (physical body) resurrection proved His claim, Chrisitians worshipped Jesus as God. These are the facts about Jesus. Quit dancing around the points. "I believe such and such" is entirely irrelevant!

Rex

heathen

looks like an interesting site there shining one . Why are they called christian apologetics ?

My take is that jesus was the first born of creation and all things were created through him but at the time he was not considered God . I do think he was michael the arch angel which was still a very prominent position but when later called on to give his life as a ransom sacrifice was exalted to sharing the title of God with his father . That's why the passage in Isaiah 9:6 says he will be called Mighty God in a future sense . That's the only way I can see any of this to make sense out of it . This whole trinity nonsense is absurd , there is no sense in saying the almighty would humble himself to the extreme that jesus did . I think an important message in the bible is that all creation is humbled in comparison to the almighty .

bebu

stilla, I think that death is considered "master" to those who experience it, or even it appears as master from those who watch a person die. God in his own nature could not experience it, like you said; taking on the form of man, he could. If death can be experienced (tasted) and conquered, I think death must mean here something beyond mere 'non-existence'...

there is no sense in saying the almighty would humble himself to the extreme that jesus did

Is God very rational, though? There's certainly no sense in the idea that He loves people. Love is pretty irrational, but that makes it so wonderful. bebu

heathen

Yes I think God is rational . There is way more scripture to debunk the trinity than support it . The word does not appear in the new testament . I don't think that God wanted to taste death , I keep hearing crap like that and it's nothing but opinion with no scriptural support for it . Much like this two natures of God buisness .

Shining One

If "there is way more scripture to debunk the trinity than to support it", can you answer these questions:

1) Why does the WTS have to misquote the opinions of translators like Massey and Robertson?
2) Why does the WTS resort to a misdefining the definition of the trinity to make it easier to dispute?
3) Why have Christians worshipped Jesus even before His resurrection?
4) Why did the early Christians use 'Lord God' for both Him and the Father (in persons) and then also include the personage of the Holy Spirit?
5) Why have the JW bible translators contradicted themselves (inconsistent translating) and other scripture by changing it to suit their beliefs in over 300 places?
6) Why does the WTS leadership deny the deity of Christ (just like the Docetians and Nicolatians did) when He claimed to be Lord God Almighty seven times in the book of John?

The only 'scholars' who come remotely in agreement with the heresies expounded by the WTS are those who deny the infallibility of scripture and the deity of God Himself. Even Mormons and the Pentecostal modalists do not deny the deity of Jesus! I used to believe as you do...then I tried to disprove the trinity as valid (in my own mind). What I found out through this research convinced me that the scriptures do teach a tri-unity of three persons and this is exactly what the apostles believed and taught! Otherwise, I could have happily remained a Berean Bible Student and not become a Trinitarian.
Rex

ButtLight

the almighty would humble himself to the extreme that jesus did

I agree, there would be no reason what so ever for him to die for us, if he is almighty god, he can do it right from where he is at!

bebu

he is almighty god, he can do it right from where he is at!

...But how would anyone down here know? How would we know what's going on up there? Everything would be speculation. I think it's definitely easier to discuss what happens down here than up there.

bebu

heathen

I don't know how the WTBTS came to their conclusions on those issues but it is so clear even if you just read revelation that there are 2 entities ruling the universe not just one .It's kinda like president and vice president . John 1 says the word was with God but if you have king james it will say the word was God in the NWT it says the word was a god which makes more sense than to say he was with God and also God . At the time he was not God . After he proved faithful and true he was promoted and exalted , he was prince of peace but now king of kings and lord of lords . It does take alot of reading to get the whole picture but it very clear to me . The bible does contradict itself and the apostle Paul writings were likely tampered with as were alot of others .

romans 6 vs 9

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