"Our Father Which Art In Heaven"

by Hellrider 33 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Hellrider

    ...Hallowed be thy Name. Thy Kingdom come. Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this Day our daily Bread. And forgive us our Trespassings, as We forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into Temptation, but deliver us from Evil.

    This is a comon prayer among many christians, and in many churches. It is how Jesus thought us to pray, and the prayer is in Matthew, 6.10-14. But rarely did I ever hear this prayer among JWs! Why is that?! I have a theory! I`m definitely not sure about it, but I would like to hear comments:

    The prayer starts of with "Hallowed be thy Name". In another thread, DefD used this as an example of why the God of the NT is also YHWH (or as JWs would say it, "Jehovah"). The fact that even Jesus told us to "hallow gods name", was something that he used as an argument against the Trinity-doctrine. Ok, but how about the rest of the prayer? My point is, that the prayer Jesus is teaching his followers, is quite unlike a prayer you would say to the God of the Old Testament. Some of the sentences catches my attention:

    "Give us this day our daily bread": "Bread" is mentioned quite often in the NT. At the last supper, they are eating bread, and once, Jesus fed five thousand people with five breads and two fishes. Nowhere in the OT could I find anything particular about "bread".

    "Forgive us our Trespassings, as we forgive those who trespass against us": This sounds nothing like the God of the OT, but more like Mathew 5.38-39: 5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 5:39 But I say to you, do not resist the evildoer. But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. " So, Jesus is in fact here spaking against the OT!

    "And lead us not into Temptation, but deliver us from Evil": This sounds a lot like when Christ himself was tempted. Satan offered him the entire world, and Christ definitely was tempted.

    My question is: When we pray "our Father which art in Heaven", is it more likely (the rest of the prayer taken into consideration) that we are praying to God, as in Jahve, or to God, as in Jahve, Christ and the holy spirit? The God to which we are here taught to pray, sounds nothing like the god of the OT. And to me, it seems that many of the things we are taught to pray about, is related directly to Jesus` own life.

    (I`m not sure whether Christ was tempted before or after he taught this prayer, or if he did the bread-and-fish-trick before or after this prayer, but seen from a christian viewpoint, I don`t think it matters) To spell it out: Is this the god of trinity, or is it Yhwh? To me, it looks more like the trinity-god. Which could easily explain why it isn`t a prayer JWs use.

    Am I onto something? Or is it all... ?

  • defd

    Hell rider im not sure of what your getting at but from my understanding of the bible Jesus was teaching his Disciples how to pray. He taught them what to pray about. The first things interestingly are not concerning ourselves but about God. Praying for the sanctification of Gods name..... his Kingdom to come...and for his will be done. Jesus was telling us what really is important. I do not recite that as some do. Jesus did not intend for us to do that.


  • in a new york bethel minute
    in a new york bethel minute

    i'll tell you why witnesses don't use this prayer: because they always start their prayers with 'JEHOVAH GOD...' even though in the model prayer, jesus did NOT use God's name, witnesses insist on it in case Jehovah gets confused as to who the person is praying to. because there are so many alive false gods out there...


  • the_classicist
    Jesus did not intend for us to do that.


    If you look at the Didache, written by early Christians around 100 A.D., it tells us that the early Christians prayed the Our Father three times a day.

    If Jesus did not intend for us to do that, why would he give us a pre-made prayer written by the Son Himself?

  • Elsewhere

    Hallowed are the Ori

    Hallowed are the children of the Ori

    The power of the Ori shall be felt far and wide, and the wicked shall be vanquished! Hallowed are the Ori!


    Sorry to have to be the one to tell you but you have the quote wrong...and when you see it the right way, then you will realize that Jehovah is not God's name. The actual quote is..."Our Father who is Art in heaven..." That's right, His name is Art. Now, go spread the word. My work is done.


  • BrendaCloutier

    The "Our Father" is an incredible prayer of submission and empowerment. When I need to center and need to find peace, I say the prayer, as I learned it .... in AA.

    I was most embarrased at my first AA meeting when they said the "Our Father" and I didn't KNOW IT, with all the bible learning I had growing up, chapter and verse, and I couldn't recite it.

    "Our" Father. Our support, creator, provider, guide, and teacher, in all that is holy.

    Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven; I accept your kingdom and allow your works within me or through me. I am not a hinderance.

    Give us this day, our daily bread: Provide for me that which I cannot provide for myself - just for today. Simple sustenance. physical and spiritual. And lead me not into temptation to whap Elsewhere upside the head, but love him inspite of himself.

    The NWT suggests "forgive us our sins as we forgive the sins of others". I like trespasses better. To trespass may be but a simple thing: a personal slight or oversight by someone else, and we learn to forgive these as Our Father forgives them of us. It doesn't have to be as big as a "sin".

    For thyne is the Kingdom The Power and the Glory Forever and ever; the Ultimate, the Alpha and the Omega and the recognition of it.

    Obey!! erm.... Amen.

  • Kenneson

    In the Lord's Prayer, Jesus uses "Father." Not one mention of "Jehovah." He wasn't talking about a literal name but rather that the Father's authority, glory, character and divinity may be manifested.

    When is a name not a name? If a policeman says: "Open or stop in the name of the law," we don't expect the law to have a literal name like Tom, Dick, or Harry. It means "by authority of." If someone calls me a name (epithet), it might not be Kenneson, if you get my drift. The man gave the complex a bad name (reputation). In football he made a name (fame) for himself.

    Likewise, hallowed be thy name or holy is your name does not refer to a literal name.

  • Terry

    How likely is it that Jews were clueless how to pray?

    Not likely.

    How would Jesus pray and why would Jesus pray; that is the question.

    "Hallowed be thy name." This is pointless for two reasons.

    1.A name is used to distinguish similar things one from the other. If there is only ONE God, then, the category is all his and no further definition is necessary. To distinguish the ONLY true god from make believe gods is unnecessary in the first place and redundant thinking in the last analysis.

    2.If somebody's name is hallowed it is set apart for a special purpose. The Jews did not use God's personal name for fear of violating the commandment against taking the name in vain. Not even Jesus, as a good Jew and a rabbi, violated this reverent taboo.

    Pater hemoun ho en tois ouranois is Greek for Father of us; the one in the sky. So, Sky Father is kinda nice and sounds rather American Indian, don't you think?

    Reciting a prayer is like going up to your dad and reading a "heartfelt" request to him off a 3x5 card. It isn't spontaneous and consequently isn't sincere in the way conversation with a parent should lack pretense. Recitation of magic words is the sort of thing mystical religious people riddled with superstitions approached worship. It is primitive and ritualistic.

    Who do you think was standing close to Jesus writing all these words down? Or was it somebody with a really really good memory? I don't think so. I don't think any thinking person can take any of this seriously.

    But, then, it is a foregone conclusion that any person who needs to be instructed on how to ask their parent for something really isn't thinking straight. If Sky God is anyone's father it is the talespinners who came up with this myth.


  • in a new york bethel minute
    in a new york bethel minute
    "Hallowed be thy name." This is pointless for two reasons

    terry why do u always have to ruin it for us?


    p.s. oh come on im just kidding yo!

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