Hophra and the Watchtower Society

by Jeffro 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    One of the Pharoahs that is mentioned in the Bible is Hophra (aka Apries, aka Ha'a'ibra Wahibra).

    Jeremiah 44:30 says: "This is what Jehovah has said: “Here I am giving Phar´aoh Hoph´ra, the king of Egypt, into the hand of his enemies and into the hand of those seeking for his soul, just as I have given Zed·e·ki´ah the king of Judah into the hand of Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon, his enemy and the one seeking for his soul.”’”")

    The closest the Watchtower Society gets to attempting to assign any years to Hophra is in a Questions from Readers article in the 1 October 1970, Watchtower (incidentally on page 607 of the bound volume). It states: "Egypt made one last attempt to remain a power in Asia. The ruling Pharaoh (believed to be Hophra) came to Canaan in answer to Judean King Zedekiah’s request for military support in his revolt against Babylon in 609-607 B.C.E."

    To cast more doubt on the years of Hophra's rule, the Insight article about him says: "Hophra is believed to have reigned for 19 years. However, according to Herodotus (II, 161), he reigned for 25 years." They do not mention here however that for a time he continued to reign in rivalry to his successor Amasis (aka Chenibra Amose-si-Neith) for about 5 years, clearing up the supposed discrepancy with Herodotus. (This is despite the fact that in Insight [vol 1, page 450] under Chronology (Problems of Egyptian Chronology) they state: "perhaps several Egyptian kings ruled at one and the same time")

    Contrast this with the fact that without any supporting documentary evidence the Society elsewhere states that in "(625 B.C.E.), Necho’s forces suffered defeat" at Carchemish (Insight vol2 p483) and "Pharaoh Necho ... killed [King Josiah] ... (c. 629 B.C.E.)" (Insight vol1 p418). Why is it that the Society willingly assigns years to Necho but appears less keen to do so for Hophra? Why do they not simply adjust Hophra's reign by the missing 20 years like they do for Necho?

    According to secular history, Hophra (aka Apries, aka Ha'a'ibra Wahibra) ruled Egypt circa 589-570. This is in agreement with Jeremiah 44:30 which states that Egypt would be given into Babylon's hand after Zedekiah was imprisoned (circa 588BC). Because the length of Apries' successor's reign is known, and because it would be difficult to stretch Amasis' already 40-year reign to 60 years (required in order for 'Hophra to come to Canaan in 609-607 B.C.E.'), it is difficult for the Society to indicate exactly when Hophra is supposed to have reigned.

    Why not then just adjust the dates for Amasis by 20 years as well? This cannot easily be done because of the connection between Egyptian and Babylonian rulers. The Society's acceptance for the pivotal year of 539BC is drawn from a "Babylonian clay tablet" (Insight, vol1,p453 [Chronology]) - actually an astronomical diary catalogued as 'Strm.Kambys.400' - which "establishes the seventh year of Cambyses II as beginning in the spring of 523 B.C.E". This can not easily be separated from the fact that Cambyses ruled Egypt in 525BC, certainly not enough to create a 20-year gap.

    Therefore, the Society is forced to admit either that it is wrong about 607, or that a mystery 20 years is also missing from Egyptian history at exactly the same time as Babylon's missing 20 years.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Thanks for this nice summary. I don't think there is much trouble with the dating of Hophra since it is clear that Amasis was ruling by the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar. As you said, the expansion would come during the reign of Amasis who must be extended, presumtively, 20-26 years making his rule very long.

    JC

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    Celebrated WT have long cautioned that Egyptian is in a state of flux so there is disagreement amongst scolars as to the reigns of the Pharaohs. In the case of Hophra a ruler of the 26th Dynasty had a reign of some 19 years. Most scholars give the duration from 589-570, others from 588-569 BCE. These dates are based on secular chronology but using reliable Bible chronology then his reign can easily be brought into the context of the Fall in 607 BCE as he was comtemporaneous with those momentous events.

    scholar JW

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    Celebrated WT

    Well at least the word 'scholars' is missing this time. Still lame though.

    have long cautioned that Egyptian is in a state of flux so there is disagreement amongst scolars as to the reigns of the Pharaohs. In the case of Hophra a ruler of the 26th Dynasty had a reign of some 19 years. Most scholars give the duration from 589-570, others from 588-569 BCE.

    (You state here that he had a reign of 19 years. I already stated that, in addition to giving the explanation for Herodotus indicating a longer reign.)

    Well... a diffence of a whole year? Maybe he didn't exist at all then. You are using a difference of a single year in the understanding of some scholars to try to justify the 20-year variance that the Society has with every other source. You can't just sweep the issue of the complete agreement between the history of Babylon and Egypt under the rug simply because some scholars disagree over the matter of a single year. Your reasoning is flawed.

    These dates are based on secular chronology but using reliable Bible chronology then his reign can easily be brought into the context of the Fall in 607 BCE as he was comtemporaneous with those momentous events.

    The "reliable Bible chronology" is entirely contingent upon the astronomical diary that places Cambyses II seventh year in 523BC. There is simply not enough "flux" in the Egyptian history in this period to account for the supposed additional 20 years between Hophra and Cambyses II.

    You cannot actually state the years for which the Society alleges that Hophra reigned, because they cannot fit him properly into their flawed chronology. The best they can do is to say that it is "believed" that he was around in 607. Nor can the Society safely state regnal years for Hophra's successor Amasis.

    The fact is that Amasis had to be old enough to set himself up as a rival Pharoah to Hophra and at that time also had to be old enough to be a General, and his reign had to continue to until six months before Cambyses ruled Egypt circa 525BC (between Amasis and Cambyses was the six-month rule of his son Psammetichus III). Not only would this take him considerably beyond the age expectancy for his time, but there is also the magical 20-year gap which no records exist.

    Even if there were no other evidence, Hophra makes the 607 doctrine impossible.

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    There is some confusion amongst scholars about the precise dates for the beginning and end of Hophra's reign and the fact that historians cannot determine the length of his reign renders the sinificance of Hophra to chronology whether secular or biblical entirely useless. The Jonsson hypothesis in its futile attempt in synchronizing Egyptian chronology with the Babylonians also fails because it uses a constructed chronology based on assumptions to disprove 607. I could just as easily construct a chronology to achieve a similar aim and still come out with 607.

    Celebrated WT scholars have in their wisdom refrained from speculation with regard to Hophra due to insufficient evidence. All that we can be certain is that he lived ande reigned at the same time as that momentous event in biblical and Jewish history, the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE.

    scholar JW

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    There is some confusion amongst scholars about the precise dates for the beginning and end of Hophra's reign and the fact that historians cannot determine the length of his reign renders the sinificance of Hophra to chronology whether secular or biblical entirely useless. The Jonsson hypothesis in its futile attempt in synchronizing Egyptian chronology with the Babylonians also fails because it uses a constructed chronology based on assumptions to disprove 607. I could just as easily construct a chronology to achieve a similar aim and still come out with 607.

    There is nothing of merit to reply to in this paragraph, but this is here so you don't think I'm conceding to your point.

    Celebrated WT scholars have in their wisdom refrained from speculation with regard to Hophra due to insufficient evidence.

    There it is again: "Celebrated WT scholars"... Don't you realise people are laughing at you? They've only 'refrained from speculation' because Hophra is damning to their doctrine.

    All that we can be certain is that he lived ande reigned at the same time as that momentous event in biblical and Jewish history, the Fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE.

    Actually, they only say it's believed to be Hophra in 607 because secular chronologers place Hophra contermporaneous with the period of Jerusalem's destruction in 587 and their seem to figure that their awkward chronology may look stronger with some kind of secular agreement. The only reference in the Bible to Hophra is that he would be given into Babylon's hand at some point after Zedekiah was. There is no reference to Hophra reigning during the Fall.

  • JCanon
    JCanon

    Again, speaking for the witnesses, the reign of Hophra which was over by the 37th year of Nebuchadnezzar (35th) is not where the extra years would be added in. But before speculation as to where to add the years in gets too wild, Josephus claims that Evil-Merodach in Antiquities ruled for 18 years, which is 16 out of the 20.

    When Evil-Mcrodach was dead, after a reign of eighteen years, Niglissar his son took the government... (Ant. X)

    Per the Bible you can add 2 years to the reign of Nebuchadnezzar making his rule 45 years and, of course, six years for the rule of Darius the Mede taking care of another 8 years that we have direct references for. That takes care of the 20 years with no problems if you're just looking to fill in (2+16+6=24 years). Per Josephus the NB is 26 years too short since he begins 70 years with the last deportation (the other two belong to Nabonidus, 19 vs 17). The years should be filled in here first before speculating there was some "missing" Neo-Babylonian kings removed from the chronology that takes care of the extra 20 years.

    JC

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    JCanon

    When Evil-Mcrodach was dead, after a reign of eighteen years, Niglissar his son took the government... (Ant. X)

    You quote Antiquities of the Jews to make up 16 of the missing 20 years. This is misleading; the quote from Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews continues:

    When Evil-Mcrodach was dead, after a reign of eighteen years, Niglissar his son took the government, and retained it forty years, and then ended his life;

    If Josephus' assignment of 18 years to Evil-Merodach is to be accepted, it would also have to be accepted that Niglissar's reign was 40 years, extending the Neo-Babylonian Empire by not 16, but 52 years, pushing the fall of Babylon back to 639BC.

    Maybe there was some kind of co-regency involved (unlikely for Neriglissar unless Nebuchadnezzar lived more than 80 years). Maybe he meant 'months' instead of 'years' for these two rulers. Maybe he was on drugs. Maybe he was just wrong. Whatever the case, it does not help the Society's case whether Josephus is right here or not. Given that records exist for all of the known years, and none for the missing years it is not likely that Josephus is correct in his assignment of these reigns.

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee

    Scholar:

    Celebrated WT scholars have in their wisdom refrained from speculation

    That phrase is enough to make me want to vomit. Certainly velebrated WT scholars have NOT in their wisdom stupidity refrained from speculation on when Armageddon is coming.

    And regarding Egypt.

    The case for the WT is weaker than Scholar would have anyone believe. This is simply evidenced by the fact that the Insight Book says absolutely NOTHING regarding Egyptian chronology during the Neo-Babylonian era.

    I wonder why?

    -ithinkisee

  • JCanon
    JCanon
    Maybe there was some kind of co-regency involved (unlikely for Neriglissar unless Nebuchadnezzar lived more than 80 years). Maybe he meant 'months' instead of 'years' for these two rulers. Maybe he was on drugs. Maybe he was just wrong. Whatever the case, it does not help the Society's case whether Josephus is right here or not. Given that records exist for all of the known years, and none for the missing years it is not likely that Josephus is correct in his assignment of these reigns.

    I absolutely agree with you, Jeffro. Something is definitely wrong. But with all those possibilities of what is really going on with Josephus, was he on drugs, or just what was happening, you have to take into consideration another possibility, and that is that he was doing the usual Jewish thing, which was tripping up the gentiles. Remember even Jesus said that he spoke in riddles so that outsiders would not know what he was up to. I can demonstrate this with Josephus elsewhere, but can't blame anyone for dismissing him. Thus I will just note for the record, that Josephus somewhere came up with 18 years for Evil-Merodach, which by other chronology is the correct number.

    But here's the "cryptic" theory for the 40 years to "consider." As I mentioned before when the reign of Nebuchadnezzar was reduced 2 years to 43 years vs 45 years, they also tried to squeeze some of the events together so that what happened in the accession year plus year 1 of Nebuchadnezzar now happens in his accession year. As a result the events during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar from that time happen a year earlier than in the Bible. Some have concluded this is just a double system of counting the rulerships but this is not the case. Thus you have Josephus in some places claiming Jerusalem falls in the 18th year of Nebuchadnezzar and others in the 19th.

    We can go "cryptic" because usually the cryptic reference is a clue to the true reference. Thus "forty" is related to "four", an acknowledgement that Josephus clearly understands that in no way did Niglassar rule for 40 years but should be confirmed at 4 years.

    What you do now is take that 40 and compare it with other numbers and see if there is any relevance.

    In this case, where Jerusalem falls in year 19, there are 74 years until the return of the Jews. If the destruction is artificially moved back to year 18, then there are 75 years until the 1st of Cyrus. That is the number you get when you add up 18 years for Evil-Merodach, "40 years" for Niglassar, and 17 years for Nabonidus. 18+40+17=75

    Now this is far-fetched for some, but since we have Josephus on drugs, crazy, or just plain wrong, you have to wonder if he wasn't making a cryptic reference to "75" by using 40 years for Niglassar, something certainly that would be considered completely "crazy" when read.

    And that goes to the foundation of how Josephus worked it. You see, if you openly contradict the powers to be, then they will shut you down and suppress you and destroy you. You won't get published. Knowledge and information stops. But if you appear to be "crazy" then they will let you babble on publicly and you will be ignored. Thus the "forty" is a decoy so he could publish the 18. By saying something ridiculous, next to critical information, the truth is disregarded but it still gets published.

    But this is very Jewish. For instance, the so-called "Rabinnical Time Line" relating to key temple dates does the same thing. The temple is dated to the 6th year of Darius to 352 BCE. Now this otherwise is 7th year of Artaxerxes II, a time when Alexander the Great is about to come onto the scene and well-documented Greek chronology. Artistotle is already 32 years old! And yet they claim this is the sixth of Darius! It's preposterous and ridiculous! But that's the key! It is so ridiculous that no one pays attention to that timeline. But in reality, we can't dismiss it as a "key" to the original timeline. Why? Because the fake date for the 1st of Cyrus in 537BCE is 82 years askew. The original date is 455BCE. Likewise the date the temple was completed is also 82 years off, 516BCE (fake) vs 434BCE. 352BCE, the year of the 6th of Darius in the rabbinical timeline is exactly 82 years after 434BCE, the true date. So you see, it's a hidden clue that they knew the correct date, and they are mocking the revised chronology by creating a timeline 82 years off in the other direction. Coincidence?

    Let's say it is. But then you have the 422BCE and 426BCE dates associated with the temple being destroyed. Clearly the 4-year gap from the fall of Jerusalem and the beginning o the 70 years would be related to these dates 4 years apart. The original dates are 529BCE and 525BCE for the fall of Jerusalem and the last deportation. So are these years also 82 years off? No. But another interval gets you these dates. That is, there are 21 years from 434BCE to 455BCE, when the second temple was begun. If you add 21 years to 82 years you get 103 years. If you add 103 years to 422BCE and 426BCE you get 525BCE and 529BCE.

    Finally, the beginning of the first temple is correctly dated to 906BCE. There are 74 years from the end of the first temple to the beginning of the second. The rabbinical dating for the 1st temple is 832BCE. Add 74 to 832 and you get 906BCE. Thus you have a situation of not being able to dismiss the rabinnical timeline since while the dating is totally ridiculous, too ridiculous to be believed even by Jews, they convert rather empirically by using prime temple date intervals and differences in the faked chronology and the true chronology. It's the game of "hiding in plain sight." But it is ingenious as well since true information gets to be transmitted "in plain sight" of those who know better. You just have to appear totally unbelievable and ridiculous and you can publish what you want, no one will suppress you because you will be considered a fool and not taken seriously. In the meantime, you are transferring secret information. Of course, there would be no need for this deception and duplicity if there were no revisions. But this is very Jewish even Biblical! Even the Biblle convolutes its own chronology likely to make it too difficult to revise easily. It gives seemingly parallel accounts that seem to have some contradictions when compared but really hide technical detail.

    Therefore, because this has been observed as a presumed tactic so that secret information can be transferred, and 75 is relevant to the chronology, Josephus has to be considered possibly providing cryptic information by the absolutely ridiculdous and easily disproven "40 year" rule of Niglassar. Yet he did not save "41" or "43" or some other reference, but "40" which suggests that in the conversion, he is assigning 4 years of Niglassar. He does this in other places as well.

    Now it's hard to absolutely say this is what he's doing, but you can't rule out the possibility that he's just being very Jewishly clever. That is, if he wanted to leave a record that Evil-Merodach ruled 18 years, knowing this would be suppressed if taken seriously, one way to do it is to appear contradictory, unreliable and just plain ridiculous and no one will bother you, you can publish what you want without being suppressed.

    Again, I don't blame anyone for dismissing this as a "reference" but since other indicators are by deductation that he must have ruled 18 years, you can't absolutely say that Josephus' reference to the "forty years" for Niglassar, a ridiculous notion beyond even being simply "wrong" since this contradicts himself elsewhere, wasn't a "decoy" to distract outsiders. If he did make this ridiculous reference in conjunction with the 18 years intentionally, then he's brilliant. If he were taken seriously, then this reference would not have survived. We just have to figure out what is the truth and what is the decoy.

    So sure, I can believe he was on drugs, crazy, why not? But did he actually believe that Niglassar ruled for 40 years, second only to Nebuchadnezzar's long reign, contradicting himself? I don't think so. My money is on that he knew exactly what would happen if he claimed Niglassar ruled for 40 years right next to the correct 18-year reference of Evil-Merodach. He knew it wouldn't be taken seriously, but he also knew it would not likely be suppressed. It was a clever way of preserving this critical reference.

    JC

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