>> One account by one source......
Didn't the paragraph before say that the "populace" witnessed it? Using your logic this would be many many sources. Paul just has to *claim* many people saw Jesus rise and for some reason you view each of those *claimed* witnesses as first-hand accounts. Where are their actual claims? All you have is second and third hand info many years after the fact which is no better than what you are criticizing.
rem
The Skeptic's Worst Nightmare (S)
by Shining One 94 Replies latest watchtower bible
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rem
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Shining One
Hey Alan,
1) Why should the debate take place here? If you are so truth bearing, factual and correct, you should be able to handle the challenge that they presented! I did not ask you for a debate on YEC. If you remember I posted on both OEC and YEC. If you do debate them then they must agree to the subject at hand. You are the one making the contention that the site lacks merit!
2) Your analogies back to JWism and such are comparing apples and oranges. You are simply confusing the issue and I don't need to answer those. New Testament writing are derived directly from O.T. law and prophecy, which is fullfilled in the life of Jesus Christ.
3) You are comparing one printing company printing its own literature during a span of a year or two for most publications. Surely, you are not comparing the dilligently copied scrolls of ages to that are you?
4) You also better research some other sources for scripture scholarship than the leftist ideologues you seem to favor. The Watchtower is famous for using them as well, selectively!!!!
You are obviously making unfair comparisons between the TEACHINGS of Christ and those of Mohammed. Compare the New Testament and the Koran. I am not going to sit down and explain that. No one has warped the teachings (out of context) of Moahmmed like many of the so callled 'follower's' of Christ have. The Islamic countries are still in barbaric mode and it is directly due to the teachings espoused (IN CONTEXT) in the Koran. Where are the Christian and Jewish homicide bombers if Judeo-Christian teachings are the same? Where are the feminists and gays actually free to be themselves?
You are no doubt referring to the crusades and many subsequent conquerings by 'Christian led countries'.
Point!!!!!!They are not Christian if they are not follwoing His commands!
The Jews were wiped out in Jerusalem by the Roman legions, not by any Christians. The Jews were also slaughtered by the millions by National Socialists who had the occult and EVOLUTIONARY theories as their reference and ethics for justifying what they did. The Christian church was always a front. The whole world was freed by Christian led armies. They rid the world of the National Socialists, the Fascists, the Communists (with the help of Pope John Paul) and they are still the beacon for fredom in this day. Yes, despite all of our 'fundys' as you call us, we do stand for freedom.
Let's now examine the world (not you) in general without CHRISTIAN VALUES:
You can see the clear results in this world today the of nihlism, natualism and lack of morality. You can see it in the idiotic condemnations of Israel and the U.S. by the spineless and godless German, French and Russians. You have the almost absolute silence or approval of the death of innocents by Islamic leaders. This has always been the case!
You see the left leaning liberal media hypocrisy that actively seeks to have American interests and efforts at leading the world to democracy undercut. You see the hypocrisy of those who support 'abortion on demand' are the most often the same ones who are 'tree huggers' and PETA animal rights advocates. Where is the sympathy for the rights of the most defensless human beings in our world? They are sacriced on the altar of feminism. Christian haters and those of their ilk are the most hypocritical people of all. Liberals in general embrace those who espouse the CORRECT POLITICAL leanings, regardless of the person's character.
The fact is that if you believe scripture or not, would you rather live in a world where people followed the lead of Christ or one where Hitler, Islamic Mullahs, Lenin, Stalin, Hussein, Pol Pot, etc ad nauseum?
Do you now see my passion and why I believe Christian-bashers are leading people into nihlism and ruin: both personal and political?
People have been killed for ages in the name of religion. I am not talking about religion and mindless debates over abstract philosophy, logic or even origins! None of that is relevant in the real world outside of the ivory towers of self-described scholars. That is exactly what is engaged in here: mindless debates over useless philosophies, human logic and political correctness.
Scripture nowhere teaches us to kill in the name of God, it shows God's wrath and that is His province, not ours. You cannot justify killing on the basis of God using nations and nature to demonstrate His wrath, He is the ultimate arbiter. We have seen the Christ and He is just like Him, one with the Father.
Is promiscuity beneficial or not, look at the toll in disease and broken relationships! Has society always benefited, pagan or not, from following ethical and moral principals? Look at the root causes of the fall of Rome, the subsequent middles ages and then look at our civilization: it is on the brink! As more and more of our Judeo-Christian values are removed from scoiety, the fact is this: it becomes more and more lawless and brutal. Is any church wrong to teach moral law, especially with the proven test of history to look at? Corruption is a 'slippery slope', like it or not we cannot be totally free or society as a whole suffers.
I am talking about living a life of humilty, gentleness, compassion and love. All of that shines through scripture like a beacon of hope in this darkness. THAT is what people are undercutting. If skeptics do indeed win that battle and remove people from their faith (that's exactly what goes on here) then that person is on the road to ruin, society follows.
Do you really want to live in a world dominated by the dog eat dog philosphy of evolution? Have you seen the disintigration of ethics in corporate America? Yes, capitalism and socialism have been directly affected by the denigration of morals and ethics. The Humanist Manifesto works no better than the Communist Manifesto because God is removed. Like it or not, when fear (respect) of God evaporates society disintegrates!
We fundys (as you have labled us), we true believers, actually try to apply the Lord's teachings in our lives and encourage it from others. We have seen it work, we have been freed in a sense from sin and in doing that we reap benefits, right now, in this life. We use more of our money (we are critisized for doing fundraising) for altruistic and compassionate programs that help all peoples, not just fellow Christians, than the great majority of society.
Christianity has been proven to flourish under pesecution and society then improves toward greater freedoms. Christian nations no longer have laws that condemn or even coerce individuals for changing faiths. Fundys typically uphold the rights of the individual to make his own peace with God or not.
Am I saying that 'no huamnist can do this'? No, but look at the results in front of your face. You see it on the news every day.
I truly do pray that all of us here take time to think how our teachings and opinions are affecting others. If I must look like a fool and be laughed at by everyone here, to give one person reason to hope, so be it! I know how the story ends and regardless of whether or anyone here believes it. The darkness cannot overcome the light!
Rex -
Shining One
>Ah, you can dismiss the Bahai and Islam with a 5" paragraph..... did a lot of serious study there eh? NOT.
You failed to note that I have investigated this faith before.
>You so desperately want to believe dear Shining One you've checked your intellect at the door.
If you think so that's fine, now look at your own reasoning and see that you are projecting your own fears onto me. You don't want to be accountable to anyone, desperately.
Rex -
Shining One
Terry,
As long as your research is limited to the far left theologians you will have exactly their views...
Rex -
EvilForce
Funny every time YOUR god is invoked my dear Shiny One is usually in the march to war. Ala, Iraqmire.
*****If I must look like a fool and be laughed at by everyone here, to give one person reason to hope, so be it! I know how the story ends and regardless of whether or anyone here believes it. The darkness cannot overcome the light!
Well you might "save" 1 but lose 99 due to your silly assertions. Who really has the light? Let the more enlightened argument win.
Ok, I have more productive things to do than read more inane crap from you shiny.....I got paint drying I should go watch. Later. -
ColdRedRain
"It seems that Bible literalists think an explanation is as good as proof. Do you find it odd that defenders of the Book of Mormon also have ready-made "explanations" to combat what might otherwise be a logical conundrum? "
I believe that's called "Argumentum ad ignoram".
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hmike
Well, Rex, looks like you’ve really set yourself up as a lightning rod. Funny thing about lightning rods--people don’t want to be close to one in a storm. I haven’t read all your posts, so I don’t know if I can sign off on everything you’ve said, but from what I have read, I’d say you’ve given plenty of good information and resources to balance out the skeptical position. You know, with all the opposition you’ve gotten here, there might just be some people who will seriously consider what you’ve proposed, but you may never hear from them. So, even if I am only speaking for myself (which, frankly, I doubt, considering what I’ve read from others in the past), I want to thank you for presenting and supporting this position.
As I’ve said before on this board, people who are willing and able to believe the Bible can find enough to justify doing so, and those who are not can find plenty to discredit the Bible. It’s all a matter of how you fill in the blanks. I don’t value apologetics as much as I used to. Information and discussions may be helpful in showing that there is an alternative to atheism, but ultimately, the decision for or against faith is based on something that happens much deeper, things a person may not even be aware of. A decision for faith cannot really rest on the intellectual level of facts and arguments, otherwise it would always be wavering depending on what new information the person was exposed to.
A true scientific mind is always open to considering new information, revising the model, and discarding it if necessary, and just because something isn’t scientifically verifiable doesn’t exclude it from the realm of possibility. In an honest search for truth, considering the vastness of the universe and our considerable human limitations, how could someone ever say, "Now I’ve got it all figured out, once for all; I understand it all, and I’ve got the correct picture. Anything that doesn’t fit isn’t true." Yet, it seems that some people who claim to trust science as the only reliable avenue to the truth do exactly that.
I hope you stick around. I appreciate your input.
Mike
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Shining One
Thanks for the input Mike and I appreciate that very much. A previous writer on another thread asked if I would call someone supporting or affirming my information a 'backslapper', since I had noted that 'itsallgoodnow' with her brief post cheering on Alan F. was doing just that. If can't see the difference between her post and this one, so be it.
I don't mind being a 'lightning rod' really but there's no way to answer every diatribe and accusation. I have to pick and choose. Few people here have the courage to go against the flow and i understand that also. I have another gem to paste here for those who are open minded enough to see both sides:
http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&ID=2464
Faith indeed is a spiritual activity and not one explained by naturalism. May God bless you and those who read (even those hurling lightning bolts, LOL) my posts!
Rex -
Shining One
A little teaser to whet your appetite:
.....Yet evolutionists continue to control the scientific and education establishments, insisting that total evolution is a scientific fact and creation is religion, so only evolution can be allowed to be taught in public schools and colleges. They gloat over the alleged fact that "an unprecedented 14 percent of Americans tell pollsters that they are atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, or simply disinterested in religion."10 Even if this figure is assumed to be correct, it still leaves 86% of the population who believe in God.
And they express surprise that so many people have somehow come to believe in creation despite all the brainwashing in schools. The editor-in-chief of the premier magazine Science, recently moaned in a lead editorial that:
"Alternatives to the teaching of biological evolution are now being debated in no fewer than 40 states. Worse, evolution is not the only science under such challenge. In several school districts, geology materials are being rewritten because their dates for Earth's age are inconsistent with scripture (too old)."
A few evolutionists do seem to have at least a glimpse of why we object to their insistence that evolution be considered a scientifically proven fact. The following commentary on evolutionary science was in a recent issue of Geotimes. Evolutionists have "Physics Envy." They tell the public that the science behind evolution is the same science that sent people to the moon and cures diseases. It's not.
"The science behind evolution is not empirical, but forensic. Because evolution took place in history, its scientific investigations are after the fact—no testing, no observations, no repeatability, no falsification, nothing at all like physics. . . . I think this is what the public discerns—that evolution is just a bunch of just-so stories disguised as legitimate science."
Another evolutionist makes an interesting admission. He says: "Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings." They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., as anyone.
Rex(Who has the B.S. repellent handy and rain gear on!) -
Elsewhere
.....Yet evolutionists continue to control the scientific and education establishments, insisting that total evolution is a scientific fact and creation is religion, so only evolution can be allowed to be taught in public schools and colleges.
Come back when the churches start teaching evolution.