How many have survived COC ?

by vitty 28 Replies latest jw friends

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  AK - Jeff

  Wifey and I read COC during the exit process. We had major doubts, tied to the lack of love we saw, but no concrete evidence to support our speculation that we had been entombed in a cult-culture for many decades. I did not gain the full impact from what Ray said even then. I later read it again.

  I mean, yes it was powerful, but my mind was still 'under the infuence' to some extent. On the second reading, having become convinced of the hoax called Jw's, the impact was full. By then I was able to look at what he said with a greater measure of objectivity....

  I think some witnesses could actually read it and dismiss it as hokey due to the witness mindset. But if a seed of doubt is there, it will be nourished for sure.

  Jeff
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  Gill

  I believe my inlaws, who are still JWs, read CoC not long after it came out. I remember my father in law talking about the book, Ray Franz and how the WTBTS operates in his words, 'like the Gestapo, with records on everyone and everything.'

  Though they have never been very active JWs, they still ARE JWs.

  So, I think you can count them in as surviving the book and choosing to stick with something that they have always known.
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  zulukai

  I had been out about 13 years when I found a book by the Bottings, a former jw couple, called "The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses". My experience of how I read that book may shed some light on why jw's can read COC and still remain a staunch believer.
  I believe a lot of us who were really, really convinced that the religion was the truth took to the brainwash more readily than others. Parts of our minds were put to sleep in regard to hearing any and all criticisms of the org., even I might add, after we left. I read that book and my mind just would not "see" certain arguments. It was like a fog was in my head screening out facts. I still knew I never wanted to go back and the whole thing was a scam, but I couldn't assimilate certain information.
  
  When I re-read 'The Orwellian World' a couple of years ago I was shocked to discover all kinds of information in there that I MUST have tuned out. I re-read another one about the troubles that went dowm in the province of Alberta, Canada and sure enough' SAME thing. I was really troubled over this because it showed me that even though I am an intelligent, thinking individual I had been PROGRAMMED to reject any evidence that the org. was anything but the most wonderful religion on earth. And I was a victim of their hypocracy to boot!!! Go figure.
  
  I immediately got a copy of COC and understood every last thing in there! No more filters, no more fog in the head. This proved to me that some witnesses can and do block out information that does not agree with the cleverly implanted program. The thing that broke the very last little bit of the "spell" for me was picking up a newspaper and reading about the pedophile scandal and the coverups. The wealth of information I have accessed on this site has been the final vindication of the nagging suspicions and feeling of outrage I carried around for years.
  SOMETHING has to happen before some witness people can read and understand anything about that cult.
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  kilroy2

  When out in service, many years ago, a householder gave me and my soon to be bro, in-law, the book 30 years a watchtower slave by Baker Schnell [not sure on the spelling of the last name]

  We took the book and looked through it, it had many good points, so took it to elder high and mighty R, Jay of brutis cong. He said he had already read the book took it from us and said that schnell would send brothers out in service and then turn them in to the police so he could come and bail them out and be the hero. We ooooed over this bit of clap trap. and walked away thinking we were just saved from the devil not thinking that we got absolutely no explanation on the questions we just asked, but then thinking back, R Jay was always the one trying to be in the lime light and the hero. go figure, So people who are in the dubdom are there for ulterior motives, some like my old partner kunde loves the lime light to get up on stage and have the bors and sisis give him the golf clap. same with Jay, he loves to be the in charge kind of guy telling people when to crap ect. others need the support that they get from being told that they are good people, others want their life with uncertainties all spelled out for them, So for most dubbers it does not matter what you have, if you had a video of Freddie Franz wanking off a 13 year old pioneer boy, it just does not matter, but the ones that think for them selves, these are the ones that coc will do some good for, and these people are already thinking and trying to figure out why the society does not make sense.
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  FairMind

  I have read Crisis of Conscience, Captives of a Concept, In Search of Christian Freedom and several other books that expose things the WTS has done. I am still a JW. Why? There are a number of reasons.

  1.) The doctrine of all religions is full of falsity designed to control the membership. Fear of a burning Hell is a great example. The WTS has its’ false teachings the other religions have theirs’.

  2.) The WTS has indeed helped many people to become more moral and physically clean people.

  3.) The WTS’ efforts to control my time are ineffective as I’m not afraid to set my own priorities in life

  4.) I’m not afraid of being DF’d for fornication, drug use, lying, stealing or smoking because those are things I don’t want to do anyway.

  5.) Evolution can’t explain the origination of the physical universe. It takes blind faith to believe that something can spring from nothing.

  6.) I do believe in God and feel that some type of organized approach to gaining Bible knowledge is something I need.

  7.) I don’t believe the WTS is any guiltier of misleading people than other organizations (religious and governmental).

  8.) ALL OF MY FAMILY ARE JWS
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  fairchild

  That is a very interesting post, fairmind.
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  ithinkisee

  Fairmind, that is amazing.

  The fact that the NWT is so badly altered - coincidentally - where the existing JW doctrine differed from the bible doesn't bother you?

  The fact that their claims to authority are based on made up dates doesn't bother you?

  The fact that they blatantly misquote secular authorities about subjects from evolution book to trinity brochure to the reasoning book doesn't bother you?

  The fact they use known mind control, logical fallacies, and cult behavior doesn't bother you?

  Or do you just make comments like that to stir the pot?

  -ithinkisee
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  TheListener

  Fairmind, intriguing.
  

  Might I say that your number 8 may be the motivating factor to numbers 1-7.

  To truly be a witness you must give the WTS first priority. It's part of the understanding that they are speaking for God when they ask you to do things. If you aren't really doing that then you're weak in the faith. Grant you, being considered weak in the faith is good for keeping contacts with family, but I think it would be disengenuous to say that you're a JW without the qualification that you're a weak fence sitting JW.

  All of the needs you mentioned could be met in a different way, except #8. That is something I know all too well.
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  FairMind

  To truly be a witness you must give the WTS first priority

  OK Listener I suppose I am not exactly a brain washed JW who doesn’t think for him self. Before becoming a JW I had already had my fill of the hypocrisy I saw in the churches. My take on things is that JWs are simply people and like everyone else want to feel special. Quite often people who have achieved little in a secular way (maybe never tried) find that being religious makes them feel special. I think the reason why many JWs don’t face the truth about the organization is that it would shatter their fantasy of being a special, holy person.
  Ithinkisee…..All of the reasons you gave for one to be bothered by what he WTS does are legitimate and they do bother me. The truth though is that every religion seems to twist the scriptures in a way that suits them. Maybe this is why the Bible cautions us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Salvation is not through any organization, religious or governmental and anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken. I try to see things as they really are and what I see is that criticism can justly be leveled at all. One thing about mind control, etc….. I honestly believe that people choose of their own free will whether or not to let someone else do their thinking for them. Responsibility for being controlled in this way lies with the individual and not an organization.
  

  
  
  
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  stillajwexelder

  Do any of you know someone who HAS read the book and is still active in the org or not?

  I first read it (1st edition) in 1985 and I got baptized and became a servant and an elder. So yes I survived it. Also read GTR