Early Christian Worship

by the_classicist 63 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    I think ~150 A.D. is early enough for debunking any WT position:

    "And this food is called among us E ukaristia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

    "And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration" (St. Justin Martyr, First Apology LXVI-LXVII).

  • OHappyDay
    OHappyDay

    Gasp!!! What, no mention of field service, that most all-important delineator of true Christians??? Nothing about the preaching work, making disciples and hewing to the national average???

    How could those people call themselves Christians? All they talk about is Jesus Christ!!!

    Must be something wrong with them!!!!

  • jschwehm
    jschwehm

    It was reading things like this that made me investigate the Catholic Church.

    Jeff Schwehm

    www.catholicxjw.com

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    Buuubbuuuutt, the GB is the FDS. They can't be wrong. They have been appointed over all Jesus' earthly things.

    NOT

  • Now What?
    Now What?

    Classicist, thx for this post. As I read it, it may very well be the straw that breaks the camels back for me. I have a feeling that in future posts I will longer be able to say I'm a jw.

    Jeff, Things like this are also leading me to look more into the Catholic Church. Early Christian history really shoots the JW in the foot, doesn't it?

  • jschwehm
    jschwehm

    Yep...it sure does.

    Jeff Schwehm

    www.catholicxjw.com

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    So it is a well known fact that all baptised Christians received the communion every Sunday, every week, and not once a year which leaves you wondering why the dubs changed it to once a year, I think actually Russell got this idea from an adventist.

    The other thing I notice there is the charitable nature of early christians how they were keen to help the needy something the WTS absolutely ignores (isn't that apostasy from a central principle?)and this shows how much they are imitating the early church.

    What will the say? That in the apostolic church 50 years earlier than Justin there were no such things? That they resulted from apostasy?

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete





    I'm posting from memory but if anyone wants more info just ask and I'll link to some threads posted here in the past.

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist
    Note that Justin says his community used water and bread and that the liturgy included a community kiss. Hardly Catholic practice either.

    Actually, Catholics, and Orthodox, have always mixed water with the wine. The so-called "Kiss of Peace" was restricted in later centuries before the Mass of 1970, wherein the priest and deacon would only exchange the "kiss of peace." It's the same in the Orthodox Church, but in the Mass of 1970, the "kiss of peace" was extended for everyone: they either shake hands or kiss depending upon which culture you are in.

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson
    1 Cor. 11:29 states: "For anyone who eats and drinks WITHOUT DISCERNING THE BODY, eats and drinks judgment on himself." The bread and wine were not understood to be symbolical anymore than the body of Jesus was. The eating and drinking of mere elements would hardly cause individuals to be sick and die. Verse 30



    Because Paul spends very little time talking about the earthly ministry of Jesus, doesn't mean that he doesn't know about it. In Gal. 4:4 Paul affirms the Jewishness of Jesus as well as his humanness. See also Rom. 8:3 and Phil. 2:7-8. Rom. 1:3-4 says Jesus is of Davidic origin, and Rom. 9:5 places him in the line of the patriarchs. In 1 Cor. 11:23 Paul indicates that he knows of the betrayal of Jesus as well as the new covenant he announced at the Last Supper. In numerous other places he speaks of Jesus suffering and dying upon the Cross--all indications that Paul indeed did believe in a historical Jesus rather than merely a mystical one. Everything he learned about Jesus was not solely from above. In 1 Cor. 15:3 Paul reminds his audience about some traditions which he had received and had passed along to his Corinthian converts--"that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised in accordance with the Scriptures..." Immediately we are confronted with the fact that Paul is not the originator of the Good News he proclaimed. He would deny being an innovator. He was rather passing along what he had received. In addition, he is telling his audience that he stands in a line of those who pass along traditions.

    There were those who came before him who had formulated certain Crhistian traditions, in this case in the form of a story of Jesus, and Paul had been told these things. It is reasonably certain that Paul is talking about traditions he received from the earliest Jewish followers of Jesus, namely, the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem. In Gal. 1-2 in Paul's earliest letter written in A.D. 49-50, Paul had already admitted as much. He went up to Jerusalem and spoke with James, Peter, and John. We can certainly surmise that they didn't merely speak about the weather!

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