Observation by an outsider

by MikeNightHaShev 25 Replies latest jw friends

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  MikeNightHaShev

  I notice that because the JW's point out flaws with the churches doctrines and beliefs that instead of fixing or repenting or solving the issues it's easier for church people to form a backlash whether it's honest or falacious in order to displace blame and smokescreen their own inadequacies.
  You can not heal yourself by pointing out anothers wounds, you also can not solve your problems by displacing them instead of admiting and addressing them.

  If a JW or anyone else points out the problem of abuse in the church then by pointing out an abuse in the JW elders does not solve the issues of the church abuses neither is it repentance as Repentance should be.

  If you can't discuss the bible and resons why you fall short and trasngress then by bringing up personal issues or attacking each other like Jackals does not change those transgressions it just adds more.

  As an outsider I must say all of you are like animals on their prey simply because you didn't like being exposed for your false testiments and false practices. This means your emotional and psychological and spiritual level is far from being grown up.
  Will you dare persecute me for pointing out such observations? A spiritually grown person will reflect on what I say, admit to it and try to change, but a child of darkness will feel their ego hurt and group rpide kicks in causing a person not grown to become defensive bitter and mean/perhaps even spiteful.
  So the reaction you chose reveals the level you are at, so what will it be, mature discussions or will you sink to lowly personal attacks?
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  SixofNine

  May you have piece!

  So the reaction you chose reveals the level you are at, so what will it be, mature discussions or will you sink to lowly personal attacks?

  It is sad isn't it, our fellow apostates going after each other like so many dogs going after a fine peacelh of Jezebel. I can only stand on the edges ready to lick (some of) their wounds when they realize how futile it is. I personally restrict myself to licking the wounds of my fellow female apostates.

  Still, my dear brother, you stated:

  This means your emotional and psychological and spiritual level is far from being grown up.
  Will you dare persecute me for pointing out such observations? A spiritually grown person will reflect on what I say, admit to it and try to change,

  If you stand convicted by my next words so be it, the spirit within me moves me to say it. I have outgrown the bible. In light of what I know about the important things in life, it seems almost silly. Heck with "almost", it is silly to view it as a spiritual guide.

  So the reaction you chose reveals the level you are at, so what will it be, mature discussions or will you sink to lowly personal attacks?

  So wise of you to head these hot-heads off at the pass, as it were. Since you put it so nicely, I can only extend my hand down to you in friendship, ever mature, ready to bring you up to a higher, more civilized view of spirituality. I've been praying for a student like you.
  
  I remain, Sixy
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  Julie

  Greetings,

  I think that the problem with the JWs/Watchtower being critical of other religions (read: anyone who doesn't believe as they do) is that fact that they have so many problems themselves.

  When I was studying with JWs I couldn't help but notice how highly critical they were of others and this offended me. Having been a lifelong Catholic, including attending Catholic school, I had never heard a bad thing said about any other church/faith so the tone of the JWs was new to me. It also struck me as rather un-Godlike. Mostly though it gave me the impression that, if they are doing all this criticizing, they must not have any problems/scandal. You can imagine my surprise when I discovered quite the opposite.

  Isn't there something in the bible about getting the rafter out of your own eye before pointing out the splinter in your brother's? It seems to me this is one bible principle the JWs might want to make more of an effort to apply.

  Just my view,
  Julie
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  Copernicus

  Hi Mike:

  I notice that because the JW's point out flaws with the churches doctrines and beliefs that instead of fixing or repenting or solving the issues. . .

  What issues? How might they be solved? What does personal repentance have to do with organizational “issues”?

  . . . it's easier for church people to form a backlash whether it's honest or falacious in order to displace blame and smokescreen their own inadequacies.

  Sure it’s easier. In fact it’s very easy when hypocrites starting pointing at splinters in the eyes of others.

  You can not heal yourself by pointing out anothers wounds, you also can not solve your problems by displacing them instead of admiting and addressing them.

  Maybe you can’t heal yourself (although I’d say it’s arguable), but you CAN deaden the pain. And you might prevent someone else from being hurt in the process.
  
  

  If a JW or anyone else points out the problem of abuse in the church then by pointing out an abuse in the JW elders does not solve the issues of the church abuses neither is it repentance as Repentance should be.

  What’s your point?
  
  

  If you can't discuss the bible and reasons why you fall short and trasngress. . .

  I don’t believe in the bible, so why would I discuss it?

  As an outsider I must say all of you are like animals. . .

  Well, at least you’re open-minded and not one to jump to conclusions. I like that about you already Mike.

  . . .on their prey simply because you didn't like being exposed for your false testiments and false practices.

  Exactly what are the falsities of which you speak?

  Will you dare persecute me for pointing out such observations?

  Ha, ha, ha. . . hell no buddy. You won’t be persecuted here. Actually I for one want to thank you for sharing.

  A spiritually grown person will reflect on what I say. . .

  Why would they do that?

  So the reaction you chose reveals the level you are at, so what will it be, mature discussions or will you sink to lowly personal attacks?

  Mature discussion about what? Your entire post was a personal attack; what is there to talk about in it besides how right and wonderful you really are?

  I’m sure glad you dropped by Mike. You’ve added tremendously to the positive ambiance around here.
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  Flip

  As an outsider I must say all of you are like animals on their prey…so what will it be, mature discussions or will you sink to lowly personal attacks?

  Seriously, the intent of your post was, which?

  Flip
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  tergiversator

  Hi Mike,

  I'm a bit confused by your post, even after reading it through several times. If I understand you correctly, it seems as if you are arguing against pointing out abuses in the witness organization, or at least making them the prime focus. I would say most people here agree with the second part - we don't always dwell on the abuses prevalent in the witness religion. Most of us are now leading much happier lives that have nothing to do with the witnesses, and there are scores of posts that you may not have seen that deal with how we have grown personally after "admiting and addressing" our problems, instead of "displacing them", as you put it.

  But since there are some very bad things going on inside the organization that outsiders don't know about and insiders can't talk about, I am puzzled at why you seem to think it does no good whatsoever to talk about them. Perhaps, as you say, "you can not heal yourself by pointing out anothers wounds" - but you can darned well try to help other people not suffer the same injuries of shunning, covered-over abuse, mental manipulation, needless death through contradictory policies on blood and neutrality, etc.

  I'm also a bit wary when you say things like:
  

  A spiritually grown person will reflect on what I say, admit to it and try to change, but a child of darkness will feel their ego hurt...

  
  That is exactly the sort of "all good people will obviously agree with what I say and if you don't then you must be evil or crazy or both" thinking that turned me off of the witnesses. You wanted a mature discussion without us sinking to personal attacks; please do your part by not insulting any who might just so happen to disagree with some of what you say.

  Anyhow, welcome to the board, and do stick around. You might be surprised at the levels of non-bitterness we reach sometimes.

  -T.
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  somebody

  peace,
  somebody....the happy to be a "child of darkness" class in this case.
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  Undecided

  Hi MNHS,

  I have spent many hours in search of truth in religion, JWs and others and the conclusion I have reached is God has nothing to do with the religious organizations of men. The bible sure doesn't seem to be a revelation of God's thoughts to men either. If it was you could at least understand it's message without having so many contridictions, with each religious faith having to establish it's own dogma, contrary to the other's, with each one still claiming to have God's spirit directing it, and with the bible as it's foundational truth.

  I have seen too much personality conflicts in churches to have God's spirit as it's basis. I think religious people are just using it as a means to quell their fear of death and the hereafter. I'm not bashing religious people but I feel they are delusional.

  The past history of religious wars and intolerence doesn't say much for organized religion.

  My thoughts,

  Ken P.
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  sunstarr

  I notice that because the JW's point out flaws with the churches doctrines and beliefs that instead of fixing or repenting or solving the issues it's easier for church people to form a backlash whether it's honest or falacious in order to displace blame and smokescreen their own inadequacies.

  If a JW or anyone else points out the problem of abuse in the church then by pointing out an abuse in the JW elders does not solve the issues of the church abuses neither is it repentance as Repentance should be.

  Mike:

  No one is suggesting that revealing abuse among Witnesses solves the problems of other religions. However, does that mean that the Witnesses should be absolved of responsibility for their problems simply because they point out the problems of others? Clearly not. So the same could be said in reverse. If the WBTS fails to clean up serious problems among their organization, but instead points the finger at "Christendom", then the question remains: Are they really any more spiritual than the groups at which they so eagerly point that finger? As a side point, I would hope that your conclusion is not based solely on this website. After all, Mike, let's not forget that the title of this website is "Jehovah's Witness Discussion." Although this forum appears to be pretty open, I certainly don't believe that one would come here expecting to find a high level of discussions involving Buddhists or Catholics. The focal point of this board apears to be JW's. Of course, if it truly is this discussion board which you disfavor, you have every right to avoid visiting. That's neither an attack, nor is it an insult. Thank you for the posting, though.
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  peterstride

  Instead of this thread having the title "Observation by an outsider", a more appropriate title would be: "A fanatic Jehovah's Witness wants to preach to those that have left the JW cult!"

  Just my take on this,

  Peter Stride
  Toronto, Canada