Jesus died for US...technically

by enigma1863 26 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake
    Oh it's spelled differently. That was an honest question btw, I wasn't trying to be an ass or anything. 
  • Island Man
    Island Man

    Here's what I don't get about the whole Jesus died for us thing:

    Adam sinned for us consigning us all to death whether we believe in Adam or not. So we all automatically "benefit" from Adam's sin. But when it comes to Jesus dying for us, we don't all automatically benefit. We must believe in Jesus to benefit from his death. And yet, in spite of this clear difference, the bible has the gall to say this:

    But it is not with the gift as it was with the trespass. For if by one man’s trespass many died, the undeserved kindness of God and his free gift with the undeserved kindness by the one man Jesus Christ abounded much more to many. - Romans 5:15

    "The undeserved kindness of God by the one man abounded much more to many?" Really? How can you say that when fewer people are being saved by Jesus' death than are being condemned by Adam's sin? How can you say that when one has to put forth effort to benefit from Jesus' death while no effort is needed to "benefit" from Adam's sin? Truth be told, the condemnation of God by the one man's sin abounds much more to many than the undeserved kindness to be had by the death of Jesus.

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake

    The verses in the bible don't necessarily state you have to believe in Christ to be saved that I can recall. It does say that if you confess faith in him you will be saved, but that doesn't necessarily mean we can assume if you don't you will die. The judgement is left up to christ to determine if the person is good and righteous. 

    Ill have to research this to see what I can find, but off the top of my head I can think of no scripture that says if you don't believe in Christ this automatically means death. I'm fairly certain that's a religious invention because the bible does say christs blood bought everyone whether they believe or not, so I think the difference would be if you knew what the bible says and denied it because you enjoy being a bad person. But how many people actually look for reasons to do bad stuff because they enjoy it?

  • Island Man
    Island Man

    (John 3:16) . . .“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.

    (John 8:24) . . .Therefore I said to YOU, YOU will die in YOUR sins. For if YOU do not believe that I am [he], YOU will die in YOUR sins.. . .

    (Acts 3:22, 23) . . .In fact, Moses said, ‘Jehovah God will raise up for YOU from among YOUR brothers a prophet like me. YOU must listen to him according to all the things he speaks to YOU. 23 Indeed, any soul that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.. . .

  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake

    Good points. I was engrossed in another thread earlier. I'll still look into this though, see what the rest of the New Testament says. It COULD be that this is only referring to Jesus IN PERSON. Possibly not though. I'll get out the strongs concordance and see what I can find.

  • redvip2000

    "Honey I said till death do us part and I meant it. You see I technically died in that car accident for about five minutes so now I'm seeing Brittany."

    Better yet:  "Hi son, i wanted to tell you that Bob owes me something, so I decided I'm going to have you killed, so that technically Bob doesn't owe me anything anymore. Now, I love Bob and I love you too, but i simply can't live with the idea that someone owes me something, so logically the best thing is to have you killed so that I feel better with myself.  Thanks and good luck.

  • sir82

    Since we're all explaining "here's the thing I don't get", here's mine:

    God is the originator of all morality, right? So why would he set up a system where the only way to expiate sins is that someone or something has to die?

    I mean, why not set up a system of justice so that forgiveness is granted based on, oh I don't know, how many trees you plant? or how many people you comfort? you know, something constructive?

    God could design "his system of justice" any way he wanted to, right? So why have it based on brutal slaughter & bloodletting?

    Shoot, it's God, right? Why can't he just decide to forgive? Wave a magic wand or something?

    "No forgiveness of sins is possible unless blood is shed..." sounds like something a bronze age goatherd would make up....oh wait.....

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