Are you still a pacifist?

by wasasister 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • peaceloveharmony
    peaceloveharmony

    hey wasa, great thread! i've contemplated getting a gun before but decided against it. i moved into the city at 19 and lived in a not so safe area. my apartment was broken into twice. the cops said that the house next door was a crack house and that was most likely where the thiefs came from. of course, they never caught them. after these incidents, i seriously considered getting a gun and going thru the proper training. i was freaked out, what if i'd been at home? they came in thru my bedroom both times, i felt like i was being watched. i was afraid to leave my house, afraid to walk home from the bus at night. i hated feeling afraid. i started to sleep with a bat next to my bed. my roommate got stun gun and slept with it under her pillow....

    in the end, i decided i didn't want a gun. i am a peace-nik. don't get me wrong, someone attacks me, i will fight back to my death if need be, but i will not own a gun. i just don't want to, don't want that responsibility.

    but it is up to each person to make that decision.

    btw, i'm no longer scared. i still live in the city but moved into a bit of a better neighborhood, but that doesn't mean much since i take public transportation. i walk around with a "don't fuck with me" attitude, make eye contact and i take boxing lessons. learning to throw a powerful punch has been great

    anyway....my thoughts

    love
    harmony

    "If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced?"
    ..........Percy Bysshe Shelley, English poet (1792-1822)

  • larc
    larc

    Seven006,

    I agree with you. Why start subjects like this. Everyone has an opinion and no one will change their minds, so what's the point.

    Let's start a subject, like, what is your favorite sandwich. In my case, it is a Reuben in the winter and a BLT in the summer.

    Now, let's get back to guns. My father served in WWII and taught me how to shoot a gun at the age of 8. After my lessons, I never shot a gun again until I was a senior in high school. At that time I came in third in a 22 rifle comptetion against about 50 shooters.

    Do I own a gun today? No, I have never owned a gun. However, at the age of 60, I am seriously considering getting a gun and a German Shepard, for the protection of my wife and myself.

    Joelbear, if you are not willing to kill a person who would attempt to kill you or Mitch, then I feel sorry for you.

  • Francois
    Francois

    I own a gun. Have done all my life. Shotguns, rifles, pistols of all calibers and kinds. I have not known even one of them to jump up, run outside and shoot anyone. And I think I'd know if any of them had.

    It has been asked, "How could anyone argue against child-proof locks on guns or gun owners securing their weapons against theft?" This question betrays an almost complete innocence of insight into the nature of guns, of using guns, of panic, and of the mind of a criminal.

    Let's say it's the middle of the night. You're asleep. Suddenly, you hear the sound of glass breaking, wood spintering! Your home is being broken into. You hear footsteps coming closer in the darkness of your sleeping home. Oh, shit! There's more than one of 'em. They're talking about stealing the silver, all the electronics and, if they have to, they'll kill because they're drug addicts nearing the horrors of heroin withdrawal. A heroin addict will do anything, ANYTHING to avoid that horror.

    Or maybe they're just plain insane. Do you think Hannibal Lecter types are only dreamed up by screen writers? There's really none of them out here among us, are there?

    Can you imagine the panic that seizes you? You can't breathe! Your heart is pounding so hard your blood pressure shoots to near unbearable limits! They're coming and they're getting closer. In the dark, they crash in to the table in the hall, knocking it over. They're coming and they're making noise and they don't care. You realize your life is in immediate, clear, and present danger. And you remember your two children are asleep in their own bedroom. God, you hope they're asleep. Panic is so overwhelming you can't think!!

    Where is that pistol you bought? Locked up in a safe in the den? And the bullets? In the top of your closet, the very top. You know you need the short stepladder, the one in the kitchen, to reach the bullets. But the path to the kitchen is blocked by the drug-starved street junkies stumbling around just outside your bedroom door.

    Your little girl, the thirteen year-old one with the beautiful, large liquid brown eyes screams.

    OR

    Let's say it's the middle of the night. And the scene above begins to play out. You retrieve your loaded pistol from its locked fire-proof letter safe under your bed and step into the hall, the one down which the intruders must come to reach your life's treasure in the next bedroom. You'd better be willing to shoot to kill. For it's not a matter of having a gun that stops a criminal, its the fact that you're willing to use it that stops the criminal. And if you don't, if you think you'll just shoot him in the leg to stop him, think again. You may wound the bastardl. Now, because you just can't kill him, he springs across the surprisingly short distance that separates him from you, snatches the gun from your trembling hands and beats you to death with it, or just shoots you.

    Now you've got an ARMED, dangerous spaced-out criminal in your home with your children. And you gave him the weapon. If you're not willing and determined to use a gun, don't bring one home.

    AND THAT'S HOW ANYONE COULD ARGUE AGAINST CHILD-PROOF LOCKS OR GUN OWNERS SECURING THEIR GUNS AGAINST THEFT.

    In order to own a gun, you should be able to think further into the future than the end of your nose. Criminals aren't politically correct. They WILL NOT wait patiently while you go retrieve your gun, your bullets and take time to load and point the weapon. Criminals don't obey the law. That's why they're called outlaws.

    I do wish you gun-grabbers would get a grip on yourselves.

    And Wasa, old buddy, you helped me. So I'll help you. Would you post me direct?

    Francois

    Oh, yeah, pacifist? The thought never crossed my mind. If I had it to do over again, I would have become a naval aviator.

  • wasasister
    wasasister
    I agree with you. Why start subjects like this. Everyone has an opinion and no one will change their minds, so what's the point?

    That's not entirely true. I was sincere in the beginning about not being sure how I feel about owning a gun. I've read all the posts and both sides present good, logical arguments.

    Francoise invited me to post to him personally, which I have done. However, I wish he would not have used the term "gun grabber." I don't know of anyone who has suggested such a thing in this thread. Some have expressed the idea that owning (or firing) a gun is not for them personally. I have expressed that I believe those who choose to own a weapon should be responsible with it. I further believe it is possible to protect a weapon from children without making it useless for self-defense.

    How does anyone read "gun grabber" into those thoughts?

    I'm still not convinced either way, but extremist language does not pursuade me.

    Was

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    How does anyone read "gun grabber" into those thoughts?

    He's a conservative. Conservatives have been propagandized into believing that the rest of the country is feverishly after their guns, and every discussion of the subject is code for this.

    Liberals are also being propagandized in other directions. I only add that to defuse the knee-jerk response to the above paragraph that conservatives are bound to make.

  • seven006
    seven006

    Lark,

    Its great to see that my sarcasm hasn't been misinterpreted by all. OK, lets get into it.

    I own a gun and I know how to use it (I hate this statement). In my younger more macho years I was quite the marksman, I was a cop, guns are part of the whole indoctrination. I even have a first place shooting trophy (registered master with a hand gun) letting anyone who happens upon the dark corners of my closet to admire it and say oooooh. Iv even had the chance to partake in a little shoot'em up cowboys melodrama in the so called line of duty where I spent an all nighter sitting behind a tree with a semi automatic rifle pointed in my direction. It was quite a rush for a 21 year old kid.

    I have strong opinions about guns and the people this country allows to carry them. I think semi automatic weapons that are so highly protected by the NRA are absurd and should be completely outlawed. This country doesn't allow a person to take an indy car out on the freeway because it is to high powered and can jeopardize the safety of the average driver but they will let some red neck hillbilly own a semi automatic weapon and because he got fired from his job licking stamps at the post office he can take his AK47 and blow the hell out of some daycare facility.

    The right to bare arms is one thing, the right to allow a brain dead moron to own a semiautomatic weapon is another. Now the question arises, who is it that determines who is a brain dead moron or not. You got me on that one. Just as it is next to impossible to reverse the tobacco laws in this county it is also hard to tear the semi automatic guns out of the cold dead hands of their owners. Some things are just too hard to go back and reverse ie Columbus discovering America, Daniel Boon was a good guy and helped shape the infancy this country. What's a person to do?

    It has always been a source of amazement to me that you have to read a book, practice driving for several months, take a written test plus a driving test to get a license to drive, but any idiot can buy a gun providing that he is of legal age and he hasn't yet been caught doing something stupid like committing a felony. It still pisses me off that I have to buy a license to catch a fish. Something is wrong here.

    Getting back to guns. In this point and click world there has to be a few rules when it comes to devices that are specify designed to poke deep holes in living tissue. But since our gun toting forefathers use such devices to help shop for the families dinner it is impossible to look at such things as anything besides an ancient debet card at your local grocery store. Thus we are at the cross roads we now debate about. If an intelligent person with adequate scruples can own a dangerous weapon why can't a moron in the light of the theory of all men being created equal.

    I don't know man, beats the shit out of me.

    Dave

  • Tina
    Tina

    ((((((((sis)))))))))))))

    I'm glad you brought this up.I struggled with this issue as well.
    I grew up in a pretty tough area here in Chicago. Guns and the violence associated with them seemed to always be around.
    I never gave it a thought until my husband was murdered with one.
    Shattered my whole life,and left me feeling very unsafe . I vacillated. Reasons why I should. Reasons why I shouldn't.
    It never went beyond that because i couldn't and still can't get close to a firearm. I can't envision myself with it in MY hand.
    While I do understand the political aspects of ownership vs. non-ownership, I can't ever ,and don't want to ever possess one.It's totally repugnant to me now.

    Im looking at this and realize I gave you no good arguement,and probably didnt convey what Im trying to right now.(1 am,and little sleep over the last few days ) I'm gonna re-visit this topic when Im clearer. Just wanted to share this. luv ya,T

  • ladonna
    ladonna

    (((((((Wasa))))))

    I have never considered myself a pacifist and yet there was a time in my life when I actually looked down the barrel of a shotgun.

    Despite that, and maybe even due to that, I know I could never aim a gun and be prepared to pull the trigger. I would have to live with the consequences.

    However, I definitely would use other forms of self-defence even if it means injuring another to save my childrens lives.
    Not much of an answer.....but an honest one.

    Ana

  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    "I currently own (and purchased while still a JW) a 30-30 Winchester lever-action rifle. It normally fires a 30 cal., 170-200 grain round. It will take down a Bull Mouse"

    Dude! ...for a sec I was all excited, thinking I was gonna find the ultimate solution to my mouse prob...those pesky Bull Mouses need some comeuppance...and it would be satisfying to blow they widdle Bull Mouse Balls right off!

    I know this is s typo...but it's 5 AM and Mommie has some pesky mice living in her dropped ceilings...ROFL at my own idiocy...

  • Quester
    Quester

    I didn't see anyone mention taking a
    self-defense class. That is something
    I'd like to do. Who carries a gun
    around with them 24 hours a day?

    But if a person gets training on how to defend
    yourself anytime, anywhere, in any situation,
    I think this would empower a person and they
    would feel less fear if in a high crime area.

    Quester

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