Are you still a pacifist?

by wasasister 40 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    Hi Was: I never was a pacifist. JWs are not pacifists, because they believe in righteous war, such as those engaged in by Israel which God directed, and JWs believe in the 'righteous war' at Armageddon.

    During the Viet Nam war, I walked through a demonstration of Hippies protesting the war, wearing my suit with Bible in hand, and faced a court trial for my refusal to go into the military.

    While on the witness stand, I was asked if I would defend the USA were it attacked. I was not yet a baptized JW, but I answered as one. I said that I would not support any 'worldly' military operation whether offensive or defensive. I was asked if I would defend my wife or children or myself if personally attacked. I said yes. I was asked if I had a weapon, would I use it such in self defense. I said yes. I was asked if I would kill to defend myself or family. I said that I would hope that I would not have to face that, but if I had to kill an attacker as my only option, I would. After the trial, I was granted my Consciencious Objector status and exemption from military duty. I would have been 4-F'd anyway because I had asthma.

    If I were 20 years old again today, I would join the military in a heartbeat (likely Navy), get my GI Bill so I could pay for college. I would hope that I would not have to face combat before my 4 years were up. Then get out and continue on to college anyway.

    But, if the USA were attacked today, and a citizen militia were needed to help fend off an invading army, I would join in a heartbeat.

    I currently own (and purchased while still a JW) a 30-30 Winchester lever-action rifle. It normally fires a 30 cal., 170-200 grain round. It will take down a Bull Mouse. The Society prohibited hand gun ownership years ago, sometime about 1983+/-, but they still allowed JWs to own rifles. I am a current holder of a firearm license. But, I don't own any rounds of ammunition. I have not shot the silly thing since I left Oregon. And when I get around to it, I will sell my rifle.

    I am a big believer in self-defense and gun ownership, but I think I will avoid the political debate on this issue. I think the Apostle Peter carried a sword, and Jesus never stopped him during the whole 3 years that Peter walked alongside Christ. Jesus simply spoke up when Peter 'misused' his weapon and cut off the ear of the servant of the High Priest. Jesus healed the ear and told Peter to put the sword away, for those who live by it will die by it. Jesus was not condemning self-defense, and he did not even then stop Peter from carrying a sword, but just the use of the 'sword' as a ""way of life.""

    So, that is my over-all view, except to say that Cornelius was a Roman Army Officer and trained combat soldier who remainded in the Army after his conversion to Christianity. Not one word was said to Cornelius about leaving the Army or about pacifism. So, with that, I can say that I am not a pacifist, but I hope that I never have to kill anyone. - Amazing

  • bboyneko
    bboyneko
    I would rather die than own a gun. I know we live in a violent world. I will not let myself be influenced by that to want to use violence myself. Once I cross that line, my existence becomes meaningless for I will have lost my very persona.

    This view wouldn't have boded well during world war II, we'd all be speaking german and all be aryan.

    violence in the world isnt just an invention of man, the world, left by itself without humans would still have many violent deaths and killing. Killing is a way of life and is natural, especially when survival is at stake.

    -Dan

  • Seeker
    Seeker
    This view wouldn't have boded well during world war II, we'd all be speaking german and all be aryan.

    It would have been just fine, for either the rest of the world would have felt like me (in which case, no war), or they wouldn't (in which case plenty of people would have been willing to kill). I would gladly take a non-combatant form of service, whatever the need may be. I will not kill. Period. Go ahead, take my life if need be. I won't change who I am.

  • seven006
    seven006

    Seeker,

    If I took your life how much do you think I could get for it?
    If it's not much I could sell you to Wassa for target practice and save my own butt.
    I agree with you, I would never want to kill anybody unless I really had to.
    Don't pay any attention to BBoy, he's a break dancer and you know how violent those guys are.

    Dave

  • wasasister
    wasasister

    Although it was not my intention to start a thread on the controversy surrounding gun ownership, I am beginning to think it's about time we (as in THE BOARD) dicussed the subject. We've managed to get through Dirty Words, Racism, The Existence/Non-Existence of a Supreme Being, Oral and/or Anal Sex, Homosexuality, Masturbation, Man/Woman Bashing, and lest we forget, Venice's Boobs.

    I honestly have mixed feelings on the subject. I consider myself a moderate, yet I lean more towards Seeker's abhorrence of taking life under any circumstances. At the same time, I am now more respectful of the military people who have fought for the freedoms I enjoy as a citizen of this country. While I would never interfere with anyone's rights to own a gun, I fervently believe ownership of a deadly weapon carries a commensurate degree of responsibility.

  • wasasister
    wasasister

    PS to Dave:
    Thanks for reminding me of the pictures Julie took. If you have any of Alan wearing the hula skirt, would you forward them to me?

  • seven006
    seven006

    Damn it Wassa, why in the world would you want to start a discussion about gun ownership? Not one heated thread on this entire board has ended up in one single person changing their mind about anything. All it does is get the people that are all ready pissed off at each other even more pissed. If you ever get the desire to shoot a gun you can drive down to Portland and shoot mine. It's a nice big 357 magnum and can drop an elephant with the proper round in it. You could get it out of your system and we can avoid another verbal blood bath.

    Why don't you talk about peoples favorite vacations or favorite food or who on this board they would like to see naked, ya know, fun stuff. Why is it that the only threads that get a heavy participation are the ones where everyone ends up telling each other to fuck off. I hate to think the JW's who lurk on this board think we are all ready to kill each other.

    I just don't understand it, chicks are weird.

    Dave

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    I am a naturally peace loving person.

    I have never been in a physical confrontation. I got bullied in school but usually talked my way out of being hurt.

    I could never kill anyone. I personally couldn't live with myself.

    But, I don't judge others on their feelings in this regard.

  • wasasister
    wasasister

    Dave:

    If you ever get the desire to shoot a gun you can drive down to Portland and shoot mine. It's a nice big 357 magnum and can drop an elephant with the proper round in it.

    Blah, Blah, Blah. I think I made it quite clear: I am not interested in "shooting your gun", as you call it, no matter what the magnitude. Sheesh, get over it, will you?

    So....who DO you want to see naked?

  • philo
    philo

    : Are you still a pacifist?

    Absolutely not. I think pacifism is little more than denial of reality and moral responsibilty. I would neverthless be very careful before I took the king's shilling that I was doing it for moral reasons. Then, just point me at the bad guys...ratatt rattat brrrrrrrrr

    philo

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