Getting divorced from my husband

by Glofishy 36 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Goldfishy, you realize you are “enabler”, right? http://www.enotalone.com/article/2809.html

    By making this divorce as smooth as possible, you help him stay immature. Stop making huge promises that leave you attached and make things easier for him. Some examples of huge promises:

    • Arrange for an overnight fake adultery.
    • Arrange for a false confession.

    First of all, there is little consequence as far as the WT is concerned. Neither of you are baptized believers. You don’t use the elders as confessors; they have no authority over you.

    Here’s another scenario that would get your man his “scriptural divorce” and would not require you to jump through hoops. He confesses to adultery. He will be disfellowshipped. For six months, he works at reinstatement. He gets reinstated, and he gets to marry the honey of the month. Being disfellowshipped is not the end of the world. It is very painful and unnecessary, but this is the road he has chosen. Let him feel the pain, all of it.

    Our problems stem from his immaturity, and he needs to get away from me and grow up.

    Guess what? The Watchtower Society breeds immature people. As you have already witnessed, he depends on them for all his decisions. I am afraid as long as he stays associated with them, he will not grow up either.

    My favorite quotes from fellow posters, all excellent advice.
    diamondblue
    When I got divorced I had my solicitor in the background and I was in control of what went on, of course I took advice and her advice was brilliant but at least things didn’t escalate as they usually do when the legal eagles get their claws out. Believe me I know!

    Gumby
    A non-witness that isn't associated with the Organization isn't asked by elders to comply to witness demands/questions in such a case.

    Luna 2
    you have said that he needs to "grow up"...well, this is part of that. It's his decision to associate with JW's and try to live by their myriad of rules. That's his choice as an adult. Tough cookies if he can't get married again. That's life. You make a decision to join a cult, you live with the consequences…you are not his mommy.

    Hillbilly

    the JW culture really didnt keep your marriage intact...you say he's not even baptized so you shouldn’t give a rat's a** about what the Elders may do in the future. You owe the KH nothing. This divorce will tax your emotions on so many other levels I suggest you save your energies for the real issues at hand...those the Court will deal with.

  • Rod P
    Rod P

    Glofishy,

    I really do empathize with what you are going thru. I got divorced from my wife in 1974. She was (and still is) a staunch JW. (Your mate apparently is not even a baptized JW, which to me means he is not really in the same situation he would be in if he were baptized.)

    When we originally married in 1964, we were both active, baptized JW's, and very happy. A couple of years into the marriage, and I converted to Mormonism. This resulted in my disfellowshipment by the JW's, which led to the whole messy "shunning policy" where, as husband and wife, we were not allowed to discuss anything of a spiritual or biblical nature, even if it had to do with how we should raise our 3 daughters. In the end, I came to the realization that this was never going to work, while our children were growing up very unhappy. Divorce was the inevitable result.

    Now, both JW's and Mormons are taught that it is a very serious sin to commit adultery. Yet the only grounds JW's allow for divorce and remarriage is if the other partner commits adultery. Then you are free to remarry another JW. Mormons, on the other hand, will allow divorce and remarriage on any basis that is allowed under the "laws of the land". (However, as a Mormon, if you marry in a Mormon Temple, it is "for time and all eternity", and so temple marriages for which you may be seeking a divorce can only be done on the grounds of adultery.)

    My point is, we were both trying to live moral and spiritual lives, living up to the moral standards of the religious affiliations we belonged to. Yet, the divorce was necessary, since the marriage was ripping us all apart, including the children.

    Incidentally, before getting divorced, we had separated for a time. I was at university, but emotionally I was a wreck, because I still deeply loved my wife and our children. So I went back to them. But in order to do this, I had to renounce my membership in the Mormon church, and then come back and get reinstated by the Elders in the congregation where I was first disfellowshipped. I had to write a letter to the Mormon Stake President advising that I wanted my membership removed from the church records (I was a Mormon Elder). I wrote the letter, and a JW elder mailed the envelope to be sure it went out in the mail, not relying on my word alone.

    What the JW elders did not know was that I had a meeting with the Stake President and his High Council members. At that meeting I explained to all exactly what I was doing- that I was not renouncing the Church, that my beliefs had not changed, but that this was the only way I could be reconciled with my wife and family. They agreed to set my membership aside in their filing cabinet, removed from the local congregation records, because they always did whatever they could to help families stay together. They all shook my hand and wished me well, and away I went, focused and determined to try again to make the marriage work. This time, I would do it as a united, JW family thru my getting reinstated.

    Some seven agonizing months went by. I lived in Calgary, Alberta, and on weekends travelled 100 miles to the farm where my family was staying (with her parents, but in a separate farm house) in order to visit. Finally the big day came, and I got reinstated. Everyone was very happy, and JW's came from miles around for the "big day" reinstatement and celebration. Everyone was welcomed to the farm where we all took part in a big party and reunion.

    During the party, conversations were happening in two's and three's, and of course, being Witnesses, the matter of field service and experiences came up. It was then that it hit me. I would now have to go out in field service, knocking on the doors of householders, preaching to them the JW sermons and doctrines. Many of these householders were Mormons, and I still believed in what the Mormons taught. How could I, in good conscience, talk to a Mormon as a JW when I actually believed as a Mormon? The internal conflict that this set up inside me was unbearable. In order to keep the family together, I would have to be a total hypocrit, and preach the JW teachings to Mormons who I still believed belonged to the right church.

    I went home, did a lot of soul searching, and praying. We had picked out a place where we were going to move into in Calgary as a family unit. I moved into the place in anticipation of the move. But all the furniture and possessions were still with my wife on the farm. So here I was, this lonely guy, living in this "big house" with bare walls and no furniture. My next door neighbor thought I was really weird, living like that, and he wouldn't even talk to a weirdo like me! LOL

    Anyway, as unbelievably difficult as this was at the time, I had to phone my wife and tell her that I could not got thru with this, as I had very serious doubts about the whole JW thing. I then wrote her a letter, telling her that her religion was not true, and of course, that I still believed in the Mormon Church. She and her mom both warned me that I had better make up my mind, because there wasn't much time left before the Elders would have to disfellowship me all over again.

    Now I was convinced that as painful as this was for everyone concerned, it was better that I did this now, instead of waiting until my family moved in with me, and then I spring this news on them. We would have been a divided family once more, and all the problems that that entailed.

    I learned from this experience that I had to live with myself. I may be able to fool others, but I cannot fool myself. I knew what was the truth inside, and I did not want to live a lie as a hypocrit. And God will not be mocked! Be honest with yourself, and the rest will follow, and in the end, it will work out for the best, even if I could not see what was down the road for the future. The lie is just not worth it. It is soul destroying, and it leads to self-condemnation, guilt and low self-esteem. When you think about it, the lie is what we are really doing to ourselves, moreso than to anyone else.

    Against this backdrop, divorce was the only way out of this farcical relationship.

    In Canada, divorce laws had always been based on the adversarial system. This meant that in order for a divorce to be granted, one party had to be guilty under divorce law, while the other one was innocent. For this reason, many people did not want to accept divorce if it meant that they had to be the guilty one, such as being an adulterer. Then in the 1960's (I believe it was), the divorce laws were changed to a more enlightened system. Instead of it being a matter of guilt or innocence, divorce became a matter of the grounds by which a relationship had broken down. And so there emerged something like about 5 or 6 grounds upon which a divorce would be granted, such as (I don't recall them all):

    1) Adultery (without a guilty connotation)

    2) Mental Cruelty (which can be extremely difficult to prove in court, where the divorce is contested. There was one case of a woman who sued under these grounds and won. Her husband used to squeeze the toothpaste tube in the middle, which drove her nuts. This became "mentally cruel" for her.)

    3) Where one party is convicted of a serious crime and goes to prison.

    4) Irreconcilable differences (This is where a husband and wife could separate for a period of three years, which then proves that the relationship is no more). This is the easiest way for a couple to end a relationship without being put into a position of violating their own moral code in order to obtain grounds- i.e. adultery) (I am not certain, but I think this may have since been shortened to a period of one year now.)

    5) I think another one is "failure to consummate a marriage"

    [Note: I believe the principals of divorce law are essentially the same in the USA as in Canada]

    The next thing I worried about was the high cost of lawyers. I could not afford a big legal bill to get a divorce. Then I saw a newpaper ad about "Do-It-Yourself Divorce Classes". For $300 I could attend this class, and they would teach me everything I needed to know about getting a divorce. If we could get a divorce on an "UNCONTESTED BASIS", then they would help me fill in all of the necessary forms for the court proceedings, and both the husband and wife could go into court, present the documents, testify for your two side, and the judge will essentially grant the divorce. One of these instructors would even attend court with you.

    I then phoned my wife and told her I intended to file for divorce, so we could both get on with our lives instead of making each other miserable all the time. I told her that if she did not contest the divorce, I could do things inexpensively for both of us by going the Do-It-Yourself route. I suggested that She divorce Me, but I will do the paperwork for her. She wasn't too sure about that one. I told her I would give her the grounds for divorce (which meant I would have to commit adultery, or else we could just wait the three years, and I would sue under "irreconcilable differences")

    Now, in my mind, if I was going to divorce her under "irreconcilable differences", I would have to wait the 3 years, and then she would not be able to successfully contest the divorce. But as a Jehovah's Witness, she would not be free to remarry either, since the only basis the JW's are allowed to "divorce and remarry" is if Adultery is involved. So, big-hearted me, I was going to victimize myself here, for the sake of my wife, who I did not want her fate to be alone for the rest of her life, and my children would have to grow up without really having a father on a daily basis.

    But then, being Mormon, I did not want to actually commit adultery either. It was then that I thought about "lieing in court", just saying to the judge that I had committed adultery, and my testimony would be regarded as evidence for that. Of course, I had to think up a good little story (i.e. where I did it, when I did it, with whom, etc.)

    When I went to Divorce Class, I told them of my dilemma. Most of the people in that class were actually couples from broken marriages, and they were there with their common law partners. In other words, they all started out thinking they would just wait out the 3 years, and then get a divorce under "irreconcilable differences". (We all shared our stories in the class.) But you know, three years is a long time to live alone, especially if you have been used to living in a marriage, a partnership, a relationship. So living alone is no picnic, and your life feels pretty empty. The odds are you are going to go and find someone else with whom you can have a decent relationship in your life, and you move on. And when you do, you end up moving in together, and of course, you now become an adulterer, even though you did not start out with that intention. That was why these couples had a good chuckle over my situation about wanting to "fake an adultery" in order to get out of the marriage. They had all thought of the same thing, but afterwards said "to hell with it" when they got into a new relationship.

    Going thru that Divorce Class changed me. Living alone for three years seemed like an eternity. And going the long way (3 years) would lock my wife into a very sad future. I was seriously considering the "fake adultery" thing. Give my wife the grounds that would free her up to remarry. We could both move on and rebuild our lives, and remarry.

    So now, while I was a reinstated JW, but had to backed off the whole situation, I now had to get disfellowshipped all over again, I also did not immediately go back to becoming an active Mormon. It was during this period that I met some new friends who were not religious, and belonged to no church. Then I met a nice woman, and we became friends, and we did have a sexual relationship. I did the deed, and now my wife could sue me for divorce under "adultery".

    However, my wife did use her own attorney, and I was served the divorce papers. We went into court, I testified as to my adultery, including the details, and the divorce was granted. At the time of this proceeding, I was living 500 miles away, and so the judge granted my request for a "decree absolute" rather than a "decree nisi", in order to save me a trip back 3 months later. Usually in a divorce, a decree nisi is issued, and then a period of 3 months goes by before a decree absolute is granted. This period is like a state of "temporary divorce" during which time the couple can still changed their minds and get back together again. When the decree absolute is issued, the divorce is final, and the couples are free to remarry whoever else they want. If the divorced couple wants to later get back together again, they can do so, but must get married all over again.

    Now, from hind-sight, having gone thru the experience of a divorce, standing there in that court room in front of a judge, let me tell you, you do not want to lie and purjor yourself in court. Judges are no fools, and it is a nervous enough experience that you can easily trip yourself up in your testimony. All of your theories about "having a good imagination" and "being able to make up a good story" go right out the window in court. It is best just to tell the truth. Like my mom used to say to me "a good liar has to have a good memory, but when you tell the truth it will always be the same story".

    Had I lied in court, and let's say I got away with it all, I would still have to live with that lie inside myself. And if your partner in marriage knows about that lie, or even allowed it to be used in a court of law, he/she has to live with that same lie. It is not worth it!

    You want to be able to hold your head up with dignity and self-respect. Those lies take all that away from you, and it carries on forever. You cannot escape you, nor your memories of the real truth. So, for your own sake, Glofishy, whatever you decide to do, do it on your own terms, but do it from the truth, and not from a lie. You will not regret it in the long run, I promise you.

    All the best to you for a new and brighter future. Sometimes you have to take a few steps backwards in order to move forward. Part of your struggles and confusion are based on remembering what you have experienced (the past) that is painful, while at the same time, going thru the uncertainty over what will happen with the rest of your life (anxiety and worry). The solution is to live in the moment, for today. Each day is the first day of the rest of your life. Plant the good seeds, the right seeds in today, and the future will take care of itself.

    To cite an old cliche "Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. That's why Today is called the "Present" "

    Rod P.

  • Glofishy
    Glofishy

    Thanks for all the input guys. I'm in CA so it's no fault here. I'm such a twisted person that I probably would have enjoyed going into sordid details of something that didn't happen just to see the look on their faces. Hell, I can even pepper the "confession" with a few choice terms and watch them squirm, lol.

    He says that I will never accept the "truth", and he's right. In fact, I'm turned off to all religion in general. I already asked a buddy of mine to smack me if I ever decide to get involved in another religion, lol. I've struck out with the born again community because of their crazy beliefs, JW's certainly don't like my political opinions and the fact that I think their whole blood teaching is frankly stupid and dangerous. I can't stand the Catholic church because they refuse to take me off their rolls due to me being involuntarily baptized and marked as one of them as a baby. Mormons freak me out with their whole "blacks are cursed and descendants of Cain" theory, not to mention the golden spectacle teachings. The worst thing that the JW's teach is about the insignificance of school and college. I can't think of one organized religion that doesn't have something that is stupid about it. I should just start my own, call it the Church of Glofishy. Do whatever you wanna do. Do whatever makes you feel good and feel good about yourself. Help the helpless whenever possible. Stop unnecessary wars so my buddies don't have to be forced to go to Iraq. Work hard and be as successful as you can be. Live and let live, be kind to those that you don't agree with. Oh, and if anyone wants me to perform a marriage ceremony for them, they would have to have a pre-nup first. I could have saved a lot of worry and pain had I gotten one.

    *hugs*

  • Glofishy
    Glofishy

    I didn't really expound on why we need to get divorced, but I feel the need to rant so here goes:

    When we first got married, we were "spiritually" at the same level. He was raised JW but not baptized and was considered an inactive publisher. I was studying because I found things about the religion that I agreed with that no other religion taught. When I got to the point in my studies where I discovered that they were intrusive on matters that were none of their business, I backed off. I discovered more about the religion that I frankly could never agree with, and now I don't hate them, but I don't feel that membership with them is appropriate. There is one thing that really pissed me off though.

    He said he was always raised to believe that physical attraction to a potential mate didn't matter. He said they always taught that compatability in other areas is what is most important. He said that they taught the physical attraction will come when we live in an earthly paradise, so he didn't mind waiting for that to come along. Had he told me when we married that he wasn't physically attracted to me, I never would have married him. I would have remained friends with him since we have a lot of things in common, but I wouldn't have married him. As a result, our entire marriage is based on a lie, and that's a bitter pill to swallow. Even more bitter considering that we really do have a lot of things in common and would otherwise be compatable and totally happy.

    What kind of screwed up religion would actively teach their followers not to consider physical attraction an important factor in choosing their life partner??? Whenever I've gone to district conventions and saw the "apostates" outside with their picket signs, I used to wonder what the hell they were so angry about, and why they just didn't spend their day at the beach or something. I was always told that they were most likely disfellowshipped for immorality and they were just angry about it.

    Well DUH!!!!!! If the religion teaches to ignore physical attraction when choosing a mate...what the hell do they think is going to happen??? It's like asking for adultery to occur! He wants to stay with me because he says I'm emotionally and mentally a perfect match for him. How the hell can I stay in a relationship where someone isn't attracted to my body type, skin color, etc?

    Well, I hope others that are considering dating/marrying JW's take my message to heart. I really hate lumping everyone together, but just be careful that you don't run into the same situation that I have. This experience has taught me a hard lesson in life...never date a JW again. I'm not going to fake an affair, and I have already told him that I don't know if I'll ever be sexually active with another person ever again, which is the truth.

    I've always believed that if JW's ruled the world, we wouldn't have wars. There's a lot of great qualities they have, but this belief is really off base and illogical.

  • damselfly
    damselfly

    Thanks for the update. I am very glad that you are going to remain true to yourself. It sounds like you are very ready to move on with your life. I wish you all the best.

    Damselfly

  • Lois
    Lois

    In my opinion you shouldn't 'confess' to somethng you didn't commit. This is mind control and you'll be branded as the 'evil one' and he'll come out smelling like a rose. RESPECT YOURSELF and not give in to this sort of blackmail!! You have RIGHTS under the laws of this nation and the state you reside in and the JW elders or any other person in the congregation have no say so legally as to how you choose to file on the reasons for your divirce. PLEASE don't allow them to manipulate you into degrading yourself by telling a lie in order to be granted a divorce by the JW standards! Get a good lawyer...one who will be willing to fight tooth and nail for you rights and reputation. If you falsely confess to adultery then THEY (JW) WILL HAVE THE FINAL ULTIMATE CONTROL OVER YOU!

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    My mum and dad have wasted 12 years of their lives trying to wait out the other on this issue as they are seperated, but yes still active JWs. We're not suppossed to live this way!

    EXACTLY

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