I didn't KNOW--w-w- THIS ! ! !

by ros 22 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  ros

  Hi, all:
  I just learned something from a post on the old H2O that has me steaming!
  (Some of us still occasionally post there, including--bless his heart--Kent.)

  According to one poster, there seems to be something reallllly steaming at Bethel since 1997 (assuming the guy knows what he's alluding). Something the GB is at a loss to know how to handle. Then, one poster trying to figure out what the problem might be posted this, in part (you'll have to go there to see the rest of the post):

  . . .
  The Society had a policy back then, that if any body , especially elderly persons had money, they could turn it over to the Society and would receive payments back each month for their retirement expenses, when they passed on, the money would automatically become the Society's. This policy was verbally distributed at the circuit servant level, gave them opportunity to frequent the well to do brother's homes as an added bonus.

  Has this been common knowledge among exJWs, and I ros have just been oblivious to it????? Can anybody know something like this and not realize the WTS is a financial conglomerate not a religious one???? He goes on to say, in part:

  Now I am sure the Society, has invested that money, and not just in Kingdom Halls. That governing body member that went down to the N.Y Stock exchange did not go down there to play bingo. Maybe they have been placing bets on dead or dying horses. There has been a down turn in the stock market in the last few years, especially in high teck stocks. Nortel in Canada, holds about one third of investment in Canada (orsome such figure)has been a disaster.

  Okay, what do you say?
• 

  MadApostate

  I'm somewhat confused regarding what you are even asking, but if it pertains to Loans to the WTS, I can relate my vague recollection:

  JW "lends" bucks to WTS.
  WTS pays "interest" back to JW.
  JW "wills" principal to WTS.

  This transaction allows WTS to use the principal while JW is alive, and the debt is wiped out at JW's death.

  Now, let me guess. Not your question at all?
• 

  ChuckD

  This practice is actually relatively common. It is sometimes called a "reverse mortgage" and older people often do it as a source of income in their later years. They put up property, stocks, etc., and receive payments against it until their death, at which time the balance goes to another party.
• 

  Flip

  Ros, I agree with the “reverse mortgage” scenario ChuckD describes being quite commonly promoted because of the accumulated asset base of aging “boomers”, and lacking cash and time.

  Although the WTBTS repetitively publishes the “end is nigh” scare tactic, they sure don’t run their finances or 'planed giving desk' like anything catastrophic is going to happen any time soon.

  quote:
  
  Now I am sure the Society, has invested that money, and not just in Kingdom Halls. That governing body member that went down to the N.Y Stock exchange did not go down there to play bingo. Maybe they have been placing bets on dead or dying horses. There has been a down turn in the stock market in the last few years, especially in high teck stocks. Nortel in Canada, holds about one third of investment in Canada (orsome such figure) has been a disaster.

  The Toronto Stock Exchange 300 Index total value at one point in time during the last lamented stock bubble was almost 30 per cent Nortel. But the TSE300 index relative to United States Stock Index’s is almost insignificant and describing this as a disaster for the most is a bit of an exaggeration.
  
  However as the tech stock bubble burst, Nortel fell as fast and far as most other Tech Stocks, like all boats falling during a receding tide down to their normal, less exaggerated valuation.

  Only those who would’ve suffered significant financial losses would have been a few who bought at the peak of the bubble and refused to heed the warning signs and held on, or those trying to catch a falling knife by timing the bottom on the way down.

  I suspect the Governing Body member going to the New York Stock exchange was there to sell Nortel along with the rest of “Babylon the Great”. Or has that “historical” bible reference also been expunged from the memory of the JW rank and file by the WTBTS Corporation.
  
  Now that ‘things’ appear to have bottomed, I wouldn’t be surprised if the WTBTS financial department is back at the Stock Exchange picking up a few shares of Nortel as we ‘speak’. Nortel closed up over a dollar this past week.

  Flip
• 

  Defender

  Ros,

  I knew of an "annointed" elderly sister, who passed away, that paid the society all of her pension savings. Then when the sister needed to be put in a home for the elderly, the society started to pay back the sister. That sister was well known in Canada, her story was in one of the WT. She lived to be 104 years old. I think the society ended up paying more than what it recieved. The sister was placed under the care of 3 to 4 congregations in her area in order to visit her and provide for her needs. I am not sure if the congregations also paid some of the home's expenses as well.
• 

  Farkel

  : Has this been common knowledge among exJWs, and I ros have just been oblivious to it?????

  Sigh. It was what in bold print in the context that got to me.

  Farkel
• 

  ros

  So, the question is, might what the poster of the info be on to something? Naturally, it is rumour, but the one who was being responded to claimed that Watchtower Bethel headquarters is being faced with something since 1997 that has them backed against the wall. Something not in the media and not on the Internet. Might it have something to do with this or not.

  /Farkel, you read sooo much into so little. Trite. As usual. Maybe you need an enima./
• 

  MadApostate

  Ros:

  Since coming here, I have read and enjoyed many posts authored by you. However, even after your reply, I still don't understand what you are trying to say/ask in this thread???

  Could you tell us in what H2O thread this matter appears so I can go read it and hopely understand your question?

  I will take a stab in the meantime. If someone is positing that the WTS is having problems paying the interest on such loans due to stock market losses I would doubt such simply based on the math. They likely agreed to pay no more than 5% interest, which means that any $100,000. loan would cover the annual interest payment on other loans in the amount of $2,000,000.
  At any given time they are taking in additional loans which can be used to pay interest on older loans. As time progesses, and lenders die, old loan/interest obligations cease.

  The WTS could lose lots of money in the stock market and still not be in trouble in this area due to incoming loans.
• 

  bluesapphire

  Yes, Ros, it is standard practice. The JW who does this gets brownie points too (getting their reward in full) by all the JW's admiration and praise.

  Case in point: My MIL talks about a certain elderly sister in her congregation who received, not only her husband's pension, but his high $$ life insurance as well when he passed. Well, she didn't need all that money since she had no bills and no mortgage, so she gave it to the society and they give her a monthly amount to live on. When she passes on, the Society keeps the rest. Did she do this privately? No, she made this arrangement and made sure to let all the other witnesses know and so now everyone in the area knows and gives her praise for being such a loyal servant of the Most High God! The thing that makes me sick is that she has three non-believing children who were jipped out of their inheritance! I'm quite certain *they* will NEVER become witnesses now! But that's *really* not important, is it?

  This sister goes out door to door 70 hours a month and hasn't (to my knowledge) succeeded in converting a single person in over 10 years! But her three children were stumbled by this WTS policy. If this were really the truth, these people would be blood-guilty. But we all know it's just a corporation whose only interest is self-perpetuation!
• 

  Copernicus

  The thing that makes me sick is that she has three non-believing children who were jipped out of their inheritance!

  They weren't jipped, it's corban now [8>]