Judging Jehovah's Witnesses

by Kent 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  Copernicus

  I think that the real issue (if there is one) to be raised with the author of this book is that although the dub’s will spare no expense or effort to fight MIGHTILY for the right to exercise organizational freedoms, they refuse to extend the benefit of those same freedoms to individual publishers.

  I used to have a newspaper article on my office wall praising the Witness contribution to freedom in my country (the USA) and for their contribution in upholding constitutional rights. I threw it in the trash after I was persecuted by them for exercising my own right to speak, and observing their attempts to curtail free speech in so many others.

  The whole concept is a contradiction in terms. Were they persecuted – yes. Are they capable of visiting the same persecution upon others – in a heartbeat! Where is the virtue in that?
• 

  sennabrasil94

  When you look into something pro JW from our point of view isn't like looking at apostate materials?

  I think it's honerable to present, view, and comment on something of this nature, especialy being labeled as we are by those that oppose us. It shows a maturity, and open mind to analise all points of view.

  Thanks Kent

  I hope the end is less painfull than life.
• 

  Stephanus

  And no, I don't know if the moron who wrote this crap is on the JW payroll.... If he's not, the standard of journalism and source critics are less than desireable!

  I just hope he receives something from the WBTS for his troubles - perhaps an honorarium.

  As for journalistic standards, it's really easy to write something up if you only approach one source for info - you just really should be careful about the source!

  Q: How do you know a Dub loyal to "Jehovah's Organisation" is lying?
  A: Their lips are moving.
• 

  jschwehm

  Hi

  I emailed the author of this book some time last year I think when I read a review of this book in USA Today.

  The author told me that he is aware of the way in which the JWs treat religious dissidents in their organization. He told me that in his book he points out the great irony between the JWs public fight for religious freedom in the courts and the way in which they do all they can to prohibit religious freedom within their organization. He said he addresses this in his book.

  I have not read the book yet. But the author is aware of the JWs' many shortcomings.

  Jeff S.
• 

  Grunt

  You said:
  "The whole concept is a contradiction in terms. Were they persecuted – yes. Are they capable of visiting the same persecution upon others – in a heartbeat! Where is the virtue in that?"

  There is no virtue in it. I see the Jehovah's Witnesses as a sick group of people who have abandoned their own will to the will of their cult. The members of the Jehovah's Witnesses allow the Brooklyn headquarters to dictate how they dress, what music they listen to, what jobs they have, who they will be friends with, who they will marry, what medical treatment they will accept and what "message" they will repeat from door to door. This egotistical, arrogant, ignorant organization that tells you to stop speaking to parents, children, relatives and friends because they are critical of this group, well, they fit every defining description of a cult. They are no better than or worse than the Garbage Eaters, the Moonies or any other cult. I personally had to fight a desire to go and whip an elder whom I thought had advised my daughter not to speak to me. If I allow myself to dwell on it my anger wells up inside me to the point of really wanting to hurt someone. I have a very powerful hatred for the Governing Body, that sick group of hypocrites that have ruined so many families, destroyed so many marriages, caused so many women to live in risk of disease, caused so many boys to go to prisons where they were abused, allowed so many men, women and children to die. Any group that can turn a mother against her own child, well, suffice it to say, I despise them. This kind of hatred could lead me to persecute them which would be fair game for a book if everyone who felt my anger did the same across the country or around the world.

  While I feel only pity for these poor dubs going out pushing the party line, I feel only contempt for their leaders. I would greatly enjoy riding the Governing Body out of New York on a rail, covered with tar and feathers. Maybe the book is propaganda pushing the WT point of view, maybe it really documents what people who feel as I do sometimes did to the closest Witness they could find. I don't know. Copernicus, I always trash any Watchtower or Awake I find. I know what they are. I always approach any Witness I see and try to engage them in conversation, I know what they they believe and I want to try and show them the lies they are pushing and some of the truths they deny.

  Grunt.
• 

  Copernicus

  Grunt:

  I understand your feelings completely. Reading it brought to mind the different bible “studies” I conducted as a JW, and the conflicts they inevitably created whenever a family was involved. I cringe now when I think of the times I encouraged different ones to “put God (ie: the organization) first” – ahead of their own loved ones.

  Jesus’ own words where used to justify this: “For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.”

  Now, at this time, I don’t claim to have any real understanding of what the hell he was talking about, but I can’t imagine that practicing any philosophy which destroys familiar relationships can somehow be reconciled with his other commands emphasizing love.

  I was part of a divided household myself. I can hardly speak of the deep regret I now feel for having put so called “spiritual things” ahead of my own family, who didn’t happen to share my beliefs; despite my many attempts to coerce them into becoming JW’s. My relationship with my son was effected the most. If you’re not in the borg, or somehow impacted by it, it’s hard to appreciate the pressure they bring to bear, and the tensions they create in a household.

  There are principles in the bible that can help one to have a decent family life. When these same principles are espoused by men who conversely twist and mold the lives of their followers to the division of loyalty between a father and son, etc, it becomes a crime of the highest magnitude.

  I can only hope that some day your daughter will see the light. Until then, the exercise of patience is your only option. Once you become a dub, there is the immediate pressure to make the congregation your family, and to disown all who are outside of it. It is a control technique, pure and simple. The boomerang like consequences of this loom large later, when one tries to leave the org. And they find they’ve alienated their former loved ones. Please try to keep your heart and your arms open. People wake up and depart from this cult every day. It does happen. In the mean time, keep doing your best to warn others of the danger. Success in this regard in the best revenge.

  Regards,
  Copernicus
• 

  Rex B13

  Copernicus,
  >Jesus’ own words where used to justify this: “For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.”

  This is exactly what happened when family members chose to take different paths regarding belief in Christ and the resurrection. You have to remember the Jewish world view. Christianity was a sect, a cult if you will and took years to break away from Judaism.
  In the second part Jesus was pointing out that God could accept no less from His followers complete love, love that goes way beyond the love shown toward family and friends. What did it take for someone like Paul to leave behind his whole life and wealth, prestige and honor, to die as a prisoner of the Romans? That also applies to others who died or lost loved ones just as well.
  Charles Colson explains in his book how even the most powerful men in the world could not hold together a conspiracy. Watergate broke within two weeks of the allegations. He says this is enough proof for him that the apostles and others did not die for some falsehood. They would have scattered like rats, recanted to the authorities, when people started to imprison and kill them.
  Rex
• 

  Copernicus

  Charles Colson explains in his book how even the most powerful men in the world could not hold together a conspiracy.

  Then how do explain the long time existence of ALL the major religions if one can’t hold a conspiracy together? And please leave the “devil” out of it. According to your expert, even he’s not that good.

  Watergate broke within two weeks of the allegations.

  Really Rex, Watergate was a political action that took place in the glare of some of the most intense media scrutiny ever visited on a singular subject. Of course it broke. I only wish that Woodward and Bernstein would have had a by-line in the first century.

  He says this is enough proof for him that the apostles and others did not die for some falsehood.

  Good for him. It hardly qualifies as proof for me. People die for religious falsehoods every day. Martyrdom hardly substantiates anything.

  They would have scattered like rats, recanted to the authorities, when people started to imprison and kill them.

  Yes, and many of them did. I could very easily apply your same argument to validate modern day Mormonism. It just doesn’t hold any water Rex.

  You believe because you want too. Any authority that bolsters your belief system is welcomed by you. I don’t share your delusions, though I have no problem with your personal right to have them. It’s the sharing of them with those who aren’t interested (or who know better) that gets on my nerves.

  And Rex, did any of what you had to say offer comfort to a man who has lost his daughter to zealots? Hopefully, she won’t die a pointless death like the supposed apostles and others that you mentioned.