by Leolaia 175 Replies latest watchtower bible
Just read this post for the first time.
Excellent article.
Thanks for taking the time to write it.
I too have saved this for future reference. I believe it is the most thorough explanation and provision of proof on this subject that I have come across to date.
Thanks again.
The Oracle
Saving for future reference as well. Thank you for your researching and posting this.
Great post Ms Leo! So much reading, my poor bloodshot eyes :) I still didn;t have enough time to read every post on every page yet, so if I overlap someone's post, please forgive [as is the Christian way;}.
In very short terms - the reasoning from scriptures [1985 pgs 89-93] indicate that stauros means an upright pale or stake in classical Greek.
The problem is that the classical Greek hadn't been spoken for centuries by the time of Jesus. The bible is written in koine Greek [which is Hellenistic]. Stauros [in koine Greek] means 1]an upright stake with a cross beam above it.2] two intersecting beams of equal length, or 3] a vertical stake.
So, it is possible that could mean a vertical stake, but there is no evidence to support such a claim.
A better word for stake in koine Greek would have been skolops.
dc
Leo has really put so much information and though into this that one truly can't add to it.
I will just remind some of this, Paul found the cross vital enough as a symbol that he BOASTED in nothing else other than "Jesus and him crucified".
WHen the JW's try to pervert this and say things like it is morbid to carry the symbol of a loved ones death, or equate it to carrying around the bullets that killed a loved one, they either forget what Paul wrote, don't understand what the crucifiction means for ALL of us, or they are blatanlty trying to manipulate others away from Christ, take your pick.
The cross is a symbol of love, God and Jesus's love for us, Paul knew this and when he said that boasting in the cross was viewed as foolish by some ( gentiles) and a stumbling block to the Jews, he couldn't have been more right about the JW's aslo.
BTTT
In regards to this, as many other things, Leo has groin kicked the correct, pummelled it into submisson and choked it out cold.
Here is something that occured to me, The Wt says that the greek word staros means stake or vertical post, what we would probaly call a "beam", but there is A WORD for Beam in Greek and it is usedon Matthew 7:5 and Luke 6:41 and 42
Beam is
dokos
Now since the term Stauros indicates, in regards to a vertical stake, something that is pointy such as is used in fences, it woudl make more sense to use the greek term for BEAM if Jesus had been nailed to a vertcal piece of wood that was just that, a BEAM.
Leolaia thanks for the time you set aside to put this together and for its thoroughness. Wish I had known about this site years ago.
marking
I've searched the scriptures, in the Acts thru Revelation period, and find nothing to the effect of "believers" using crosses, either one or two pieces, as symbols of their faith in Christ. This period of "cross lessness" covers at least 35 years. So, it stands to reason that at some point after these years, someone, or something, decided that it would be a good idea to use a "cross" as a symbol of faith in Christ. Why choose an instrument of torture and death to represent their faith in a living and resurrected Christ? Their faith was in the livingword and in the preaching (good news, ramifications)of the cross of Christ. Their faith was in the person of Christ, offering himself for their redemption. Their faith was not in an actual wood "cross" nor in a symbol of a wood "cross", which would have amounted to idolatry. Gee, now let's see, who did have "symbols" galore at that time, and who didn't mind carrying pieces of wood, metal, and stone (in sundry shapes and forms)as "symbols" of their faiths. Could it have been, THE PAGANS? Obviously, at some point after the last book of the bible was written, paganism gradually crept into "the faith", with it's symbols and gods. I find no scripture anywhere, either OT or NT, that condoned the wearing or portraying of "spiritual" trinkets. I personally believe that we (Christians) still have a lot of "pagan" baggage, passed on to us from our forefathers. If we use God's light, his written word, on ourselves first, then we can use it to help others who are trapped in darkness. Thanks for lending an ear.
