The facts on crucifixion, stauros, and the "torture stake"

by Leolaia 175 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • bavman

    Wow! I will certainly store this away for future use as well. Thank you so much!

  • sonnyboy

    That was the longest post I've ever seen in my life.

    Good job.

  • jgnat

    I remember a couple of years ago when Leolaia published an early draft of her research on this subject. Do you think I can find the darn thread? JW apologists responded, "Who cares?"

    I see. So you suck in the unwary with your inaccuracies so the poor saps can spend the rest of their lives defending your imperfection. Great deception if you can keep it up, Watchtower.

  • BluesBrother

    Brilliant work, Leolaia.

    I will copy and keep that . At the end of the day it shouldnot matter much to our faith or not in Jesus, as to what the shape of his istrument of death was . However, it matters a hell of a lot to one's confidence in the scholarship of te WTS. They make such an item of it. They insist the rest of the world is wrong. Like many others I swallowed their teachings unchallenged for many years . Thank God I know better now!

  • Leolaia

    Thanks for all your comments. :)

    jgnat....Yeah, it was something I wrote many, many years ago, and I thought it was time to do a thorough rewrite to include new info, correct some errors, and express myself in a more effective way. Every so often there is a "stauros" or "crucifixion" type thread in which people ask what the real deal is, so I thought I'd post it all so that a simple link can direct future inquirers to the info here.

    Blueblades....I think Alleymom posted those pics in another thread some time ago. I'm sure she will post them here before long.

    Dutchy....I'm just curious, how many pages did it take up in Word?

    Narkissos....I agree that it is a most powerful mytheme: that someone can undergo the most gruesome of deaths possible in the Roman world and yet be victorious over it. Yet it is also not as gruesome as it could have been; Jesus had help carrying his cross (for the synoptics at least), he was offered myrrh to dull the pain, his body was not left on the cross to rot for days, etc. Some of these might reflect actual circumstances in Judea (especially pertaining to removing bodies from the cross before the day was over), but combined they do seem to soften the experience from the ultimate worst it could have been. It is interesting that of all the details that can be traced to OT exegesis, one that JD Crossan does not find OT support for is the incident of Jesus/Simon carrying the cross, which as we know is specifically Roman feature of crucifixion, and which is also the basis of more general Jesuine logia independent of the Passion narrative tradition.

    EVERYONE....If anyone has picked up the new publication on basic doctrines at the convention, please let me know if it has a discussion on the cross. It would be interesting to see if they add anything new to support their claim, or whether it just repackages old material (such as another tired reference to W. E. Vine).

  • Voyager


    This article is absolutely without a doubt the (very best) published works I have ever read concerning the Cross or Stake in connection to the twisted and false conclusions of the Watchtower Society. Leolaia you deserve an Oscar for this work you have done!

    My many thanks to you for doing such a great job!


  • Freedom Fighter
    Freedom Fighter

    I would like to add to the praise - brilliant article which I have also copied and kept for future reference. It ran to 22 pages (almost 20,000 words!) in Word. This could be submitted as a thesis lol!


  • Voyager


    I hope this doesn't sound to crazy, but I think if the above information could be condensed into a (brochure) to send out to JWs, I think some of them just might have their eyes opened up to Watchtower deception! Just a thought!


  • AnnOMaly

    Wow Leolaia. What a fantastic article. I'm going to save it.

    Wouldn't it be fair to say that a great influence on Rutherford's rejection of the cross was the very popular (and largely fanciful) "Two Babylons?"

  • katiekitten

    Well actually, Leolaia, to justify all your hard work, I think it does matter -

    Because the JWs lay a lot of importance on the fact that the cross is evil. My mum had a bible study who was supposedly being attacked by demons, and she searched her house to see what was inviting them in. She found a small silver crucifix in the bottom of a wardrobe, threw it out, and hey presto, problem solved. I was convinced for years that crosses were demonised. Of course if I had known the real truth, I would have been spared this terrifying thought.

    Even now part of me is scared by crosses, illogical I know now, in the face of all your hard work and research.

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