by Daisymay 14 Replies latest social family
Has anyone else heard of the org. convincing couples not to have children since this world is so "evil" and Armagedon was coming so soon and why not wait until after it is over?
Many new couples were told this and those families that kept conceiving were talked about behind their backs...
daisy
I do remember that people were encouraged not to have children. But I can't say I know of anyone that was looked down upon for conceiving. Ray Franz said in his book "Crisis of Conscience" that his generation was encouraged to NOT marry. That they should focus their time on Ministry.
Billygoat
I heard that this policy was about in the 1940s, the JWs were encouraged (or told) to not have children in this system but to wait for the new one to come. I just wonder how many couples now regret heeding that advice and are left childless in their old age. Real shame.
I always felt that the society didnt particularly like children anyway, there was always the feeling that the kids should be seen and not heard, unless they were up on the platform doing an item on the school. They had to sit quietly, listen, take notes, colouring in was frowned upon, worldly story books in the hall were definitely a no no. How could a child be expected to look at the Childrens Book of Bible Stories week after week after week and not get fed up?
They could not mix with 'worldly' kids - too much danger of them having fun, no out of school clubs - Brownies - no chance, Guides - got to be joking, football club - cant be competitive. What did they have to look forward to - field service.... the embarressment of having to call on their school friends when they should be out playing footie in the park.
The elders used to look on with horror as all the little kids came into the hall to go out on the service during the school holidays... well, what else were we to do with them? The elders used to hate having to drag other peoples kids around. One made his displeasure blatently obvious one day, never ever took them out with me again.
I was also very surprised at the lack of enthusiasm in the congregation when a sister became pregnant - I'm sure the elders just saw it as an extra burden, another bawling baby at the back of the hall.
Poor kids, what we put them through. I just hope that now I have left my kids will grow up happy and well balanced. I'm sure they have a better chance now that they are given the freedom to be themselves.
i remember hearing this at C & D assemblies. i also remember that many were looked down upon when they had kids because they were not "putting the truth first". this was 70s-beginning 90s. and the reg Pios all talked about all the kids theyd have in the new system--making it quite clear and vocal they had "made a sacrafice" by putting the FS 1st and not having kids til the new sys. course its the same thing as: "this is the last car im ever gonna buy" heard in 1970, 1980, 1999, 2001, etc.
Wounded Heart
Love by giving to & accepting others unconditionally = true, pure love
Howdy,
My mother-in-law is a fiesty (mean as a bugger) 80 yr old jw woman. Even has a picture of CT Russell on her living room wall (no worship meant) because he visited her father one time. They've been jw's since almost the turn of the 20th century.
She got married around '43 - and that was looked down upon because the end was so near.
She got pregnant in '44 - and was really looked down upon (even gossiped about as being "weak in the faith"). The WTBTS had eluded to the fact that "faithful christians" should put Jehovah and Jesus first in their lives, not making families.
She got pregnant again in '46 - and she said "she just held her head up high and looked the other way."
Yeah, she was "looked down upon" by the others sisters and brothers. The sisters were just more vocal about it. It's still a rough spot for her - because anyone can see they had no right to be like this. Not only that, she got pregnant the first time right before her husband was sentenced to jail for no military service. He was in jail for a year or so.
Was hard times back then - even within the jw congregation.
waiting
Waiting,
It's humor time. Your grand mother in law was a horny slut. It's a damn good thing too, otherwise your hubby wouldn't be alive. Well, I guess that's a good thing.
Serious time. I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your grandmother in law, but I think it would be great if you could get her to talk about the old days as a Witness. I bet you could learn some interesting stuff, e.g., Beth Sarim, going to the door with Rutherford record's, etc.
No Children Edict Implied
*** g74 11/8 11 Is This the Time to Have Children? ***
The circumstance that Jesus foretold proved true: “Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land.” (Luke 21:23) One can be sure that flight was more difficult for delaying parents with small children. If you had been living prior to that destruction and knew of its nearness, would you have considered that a time to be having children inside the province of Judea?
Today there is a great crowd of people who are confident that a destruction of even greater magnitude is now imminent. The evidence is that Jesus’ prophecy will shortly have a major fulfillment, upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many couples to decide not to have children at this time. They have chosen to remain childless so that they would be less encumbered to carry out the instructions of Jesus Christ to preach the good news of God’s kingdom earth wide before the end of this system comes.—Matt. 24:14.
A Personal Decision
it be noted, however, Jesus did not say that persons should not have children. At no time did he ever advise against childbearing. He simply foretold the difficult conditions that would exist prior to and during the “great tribulation,” and said that it would be hard on mothers with small children. Married couples themselves would have to decide what they would do about having children in view of the circumstances.—Matt. 24:3-22.
The fact is, throughout the Bible parenthood is spoken of as being honorable. For example, it says: “Sons are an inheritance from Jehovah; the fruitage of the belly is a reward.” (Ps. 127:3-5) Parenthood is a God-given privilege. And rearing children can be a wonderful joy to parents. Thus, regardless of the severity of present troubles or those that certainly lie ahead, some couples may desire to have children(Translation: Those who are weak and without faith and put their own desires ahead of Jehovah). The Bible says nothing to prohibit them from now enjoying this privilege and shouldering this responsibility. So it would be improper for anyone to criticize others for having children (Translation: But they could be viewed as weak spiritually and not qualified for special privileges.).
On the other hand, there are many good reasons why couples now may decide not to have children. Even within Jesus’ prophecy concerning the time of the end, sound reasons are found for remaining childless. It would, therefore, be entirely improper for anyone to criticize those who may decide that this is not the time to have children.(Translation: But hold them up as good examples make proper Christlike self-sacrifices…point out the joys of being a CO, DO, missionary. Remind the congregation that Jesus remained single and had no children)
*** w88 3/1 21 Childbearing Among God's People ***
14 For Christians in Judea and Jerusalem, the need to “keep on the watch” was particularly imperative. When Jesus gave warning of the second destruction of Jerusalem, he stated: “Woe to the pregnant women and those suckling a baby in those days!” (Matthew 24:19) True, Jesus did not tell first-century Christians that they should refrain from having children(Translation: But he didn’t tell them to have children either). He simply made a prophetic statement of fact, indicating that when the signal of Jerusalem’s imminent destruction appeared, quick flight would be more difficult for pregnant women or those with young children (Translation: No help from their Christian husbands, too busy with congregation matters). (Luke 19:41-44; 21:20-23) Nevertheless (Translation: Ignore former statements), as unrest grew among the Jews in Judea during the years preceding 66 C.E., doubtless(Translation: The Bible says nothing on this but we can read people’s minds) Jesus’ warning came to the minds of Christians and influenced their attitude toward bringing children into the world in those troubled times.(Translation: Thinking, faithful Christians would get Jesus’ unspoken point: Good Christians would not have children).
Childbearing Today
15 How should Christians view marriage and childbearing today, in this “time of the end”? (Daniel 12:4) It is truer than ever that “the scene of this world is changing,” or, as another translation puts it, “the present scheme of things is rapidly passing away.”—1 Corinthians 7:31, Phillips.(Translation: The end is very close!)
16 Now, as never before, “the time left is reduced.” Yes, only a limited time remains for Jehovah’s people to finish the work he has given them to do, namely: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) That work must be accomplished before the end comes. It is, therefore, appropriate for Christians to ask themselves how getting married or, if married, having children will affect their share in that vital work.(Translation: Don’t leave Bethel, missionary work, and regular pioneer work to have children…you will be failing in your responsibility of preaching)
Critical Times”
19 Like Noah and his family, we are also living in “a world of ungodly people.” (2 Peter 2:5) Like them, we are in “the last days” of a wicked system of things that is about to be destroyed. The apostle Paul prophesied that “the last days” of Satan’s system would bring “critical times hard to deal with.” Showing that raising children would be one of the things hard to deal with, he added that children would be “disobedient to parents.” He stated that people in general, not excluding children and adolescents, would be “unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection.” (2 Timothy 3:1-3) (Translation: why have children; they will only be a pain in the youknowwhere) While Paul was here prophesying of conditions among worldly people, obviously such prevalent attitudes would make the rearing of children increasingly difficult for Christians, as many have experienced.
Additional ideas on marriage and childbearing
*** w52 8/1 478 Questions from Readers ***
When the mandate to fill the earth is fulfilled, when childbearing ceases, the marriage partners may continue their association together as life companions, or they may not, depending upon the divine will at that future, distant time. We cannot say at this time what divine providence will arrange in the distant future in the new world. So this expression merely allows for some future action on the part of God that may terminate the marital arrangement, but it does not mean that such a divine termination will actually take place. We leave that entirely with the Lord for his future action, and the expression is included to show that if such future action is ever taken then all couples will gladly comply with the divine will as it is revealed at that distant time.
*** w56 10/1 604 'He That Marries Not Does Better' ***
Aside from marriage privileges, the “other sheep” surviving the battle of Armageddon will have untold privileges of service opened up to them by the resurrection of the dead, and these privileges will continue even after the purpose of marriage has been fulfilled and childbearing on earth ceases and husbands are relieved of the obligation to give their wives children.—Acts 24:15.
*** w96 10/1 31 'Providing for One's Household'-Meeting the Challenge in Developing Lands ***
Providing for children can be particularly difficult when there are many. African parents will often say that they love children; hence, they have as many as they can! While children may be viewed as an economic resource, many parents are unable to provide adequately for a large number of them.
Of course, the Bible says that “sons are an inheritance from Jehovah.” (Psalm 127:3) Note, however, that those words were penned during a period of favorable conditions in Israel. Later on, severe famine and war made childbearing trialsome. (Lamentations 2:11, 20; 4:10) In view of the difficult situation that prevails in many developing lands, responsible Christians should give serious thought to how many children they can realistically feed, clothe, house, and train. Having calculated the expense, many couples decide it would be best to go against tradition and limit the number of children they have.—Compare Luke 14:28.
*** g74 11/8 9 Is This the Time to Have Children? ***
This attitude is changing, however. Many informed couples nowadays hesitate when it comes to childbearing, asking themselves: Is this really a time to have children?
Hey Larc the Emporer!
She can talk endlessly...........and I mean endlessly.........about all that. Yeah, went door to door with the records. Was at Polo Grounds in '58. yada.yada.yada. My eyes glaze over when it starts.
She's a stiff-necked woman, had to be all these years. My husband's mother gave the local congregation the money for the first KH. My husband's parents gave them the land to put it on.
They've been jw's for so long that the local people called it "The M......... Religion" instead of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Has always galled some of the others. And, quite honestly, his parents are really, really, humble jw's. Well, his father, anyway. As one person said "The Last of the Good Ol' Boys."
hey Blondie
Great lookin' up work! Love your translations - give the real meaning to the WTBTS words. Exactly what my ol horny m-i-l found out to be true in her life.
Thanks.
waiting
Waiting,
I know about the eyes glazing over bit. The day after tomorrow, I am going to a Witness convention. I will have to pretend I am an investigative reporter, taking notes for the folks here. Otherwise, I won't last ten minutes.
Still, I think it would be fun ask her about Beth Sarim. I remember that you wrote that you did not know about that doctrine until you were on your way out. It would be interesting to see what she has to day about it.
Just a thought. If it was me, I probably would not take my own advice unless she was rich and I was in the will.
Hey larc,
She ain't rich and I ain't in her will. sigh.
But I will ask her about it. Betcha she won't know a "thang 'bout that............"
waiting
