Endless debate over teaching of Creationism in schools resolves issue

by Abaddon 59 Replies latest members adult

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    ... of whether we evolved from Apes or not ... only something with a monkey in its family tree could believe that creation business...

    I find it interesting that this is virtually a non-issue in every other developed country; only in the USA is the heavily politicised right-wing religious lobby campaigning to impose Creationism or ID on school curriculums.

    I wonder what other non-scientific beliefs kids will have to learn to satisfy religious lobby groups?

    • Ghosties, ghoulies and demons
    • Fortune telling
    • Dowsing
    • Mediumship
    • Astral travelling
    • Angels
    • Afterlife
    • Subordination of women
    • Astrology
    • Crystals

    Man, the timetable is gonna be full...

    ... here's a Yahoo! News item on the topic;

  • Pleasuredome
    Pleasuredome
    I wonder what other non-scientific beliefs kids will have to learn to satisfy religious lobby groups?

    homosexuality is genetic?

  • doogie
    doogie

    religion has fought science every step of the way. this stuff is really getting on my nerves.

    show me one book that you could properly call a "Creationism" book. there are plenty of Anti-Evolution books, but so far i haven't found the 'Creationism' section at my local Barnes and Noble. If the only Creationism book available is the bible, than creationism belongs in religion class. seems pretty simple to me.

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon

    I see the joke, but in all seriousness such a topic (genetic basis of sexuality) CAN be discussed scientifically.

    Even though there are opposing views within the scientific community, the rules of genetics and evidence are the same on both sides of the debate.

    The equivalent rules of 'science' and evdience are not the same on different sides of the Evolution/superstitious mumbo-jumbo debate.

    The paradigm difference between evolution and faith-based beliefs in origins is so wide as to render meangful debate meangless most of the time.

    Just as with the pro-choice/anti-choice debate, the reasons why people x think y are meaningless to people z, as they hold the basis of belief y to be nonsense.

    Why is this only a problem in America?

  • doogie
    doogie
    Why is this only a problem in America?

    the vast majority of americans misunderstand what evolution is and what it is not. i don't know how we compare to europeans as far as scientific literacy in general, but i think americans are extremely uneducated especially with regards to science. we then proceed to elect those that spout our uneducated views the loudest so we can rally behind them. i think americans' misunderstanding of evolution is a bigger (though not entirely unrelated) piece of this issue than their religious fanaticism is.

    the uneducated get a little momentum and then it's hard to break the trend and get the facts out into the public's consciousness. also, there is such a high liklihood that the average american's children will end up believing much as they do so the cycle continues.

    that's the paradox. as soon as people learn what evolution is and is not, they will see that it is not necessarily incompatible with all but the most fundamentalist of faiths. however, as long as Religious America is in charge, it doesn't look like that will happen on a large scale for awhile. they can't fight it forever, though. (if they could, we'd have a Flat Earth "Globe" sitting right next to the real one.)

  • Forscher
    Forscher

    Quote "... of whether we evolved from Apes or not ... only something with a monkey in its family tree could believe that creation business..."

    Ad Hominem attack.

    Translation: "Argument against the man" (Latin)

    Alias: The Fallacy of Personal Attack

    Type: Genetic Fallacy
    Exposition:

    A debater commits the Ad Hominem Fallacy when he introduces irrelevant personal premisses about his opponent. Such red herrings may successfully distract the opponent or the audience from the topic of the debate.
    Exposure:

    Ad Hominem is the most familiar of informal fallacies, and?with the possible exception of Undistributed Middle?the most familiar logical fallacy of them all. It is also one of the most used and abused of fallacies, and both justified and unjustified accusations of Ad Hominem abound in any debate.

    The phrase "ad hominem argument" is sometimes used to refer to a very different type of argument, namely, one that uses premisses accepted by the opposition to argue for a position. In other words, if you are trying to convince someone of something, using premisses that the person accepts?whether or not you believe them yourself. This is not necessarily a fallacious argument, and is often rhetorically effective.
    Subfallacies:

    * Abusive: An Abusive Ad Hominem occurs when an attack on the character or other irrelevant personal qualities of the opposition?such as appearance?is offered as evidence against her position. Such attacks are often effective distractions ("red herrings"), because the opponent feels it necessary to defend herself, thus being distracted from the topic of the debate.
    * Circumstantial: A Circumstantial Ad Hominem is one in which some irrelevant personal circumstance surrounding the opponent is offered as evidence against the opponent's position. This fallacy is often introduced by phrases such as: "Of course, that's what you'd expect him to say." The fallacy claims that the only reason why he argues as he does is because of personal circumstances, such as standing to gain from the argument's acceptance.

    This form of the fallacy needs to be distinguished from criticisms directed at testimony, which are not fallacious, since pointing out that someone stands to gain from testifying a certain way would tend to cast doubt upon that testimony. For instance, when a celebrity endorses a product, it is usually in return for money, which lowers the evidentiary value of such an endorsement?often to nothing! In contrast, the fact that an arguer may gain in some way from an argument's acceptance does not affect the evidentiary value of the argument, for arguments can and do stand or fall on their own merits.
    * Poisoning the Well

    Source; www.fallacyfiles.org

    My comment:

    Not much more than to point out the fallacious reasoning of attacking the parentage and education levels of those who disagree with Evolution. Such attacks ingore the reality that many who do not agree with the theory of evolution DO have advance educations.

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy

    <shamelessPlug>

    Read my new article on Evidence for Evolution!
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/91134/1.ashx

    </shamelessPlug>

    SNG

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I'm not a christian, but I do believe in intelligent design behind the material universe. I don't understand why everyone freaks out over creationism being taught as long as they don't make it religious or just say that this is what some think. Evolution is a theory and it's taught as fact in school: at least it was in my schools.

  • EvilForce
    EvilForce

    How do you teach about a higher power or God and not make it religious???

    This is why creationism should be taught in church not science class.

  • Forscher
    Forscher

    Seattleniceguy;

    I've read your articles and they are nicely done articles on adaptation. However, while I don't have a real problem with adaptation explaining the variety among, say, bears (as your panda article was a good example), to say that it partly proves that we "evolved" from monkeys (the macro-evolutionary contention), even conceptually, is a little far out there. (I know you didn't make that direct statement, however, that is what you seem out to prove, that the materialist explanation is the only acceptable one)

    Abaddon;

    Thanks for partially making my point that not everyone who does not unquestionably accept evolution is either ignorant or uneducated. I find it disgusting that those who fought to have their view simply included as an alternative explanation for our origins (the evolutionists) now feel they have the moral right to exlude any other explanation for our origins from even being mentioned in any other than contemptable terms in our schools. Students should not be taught that it is the ONLY explanation when it is not.

    I am also fed up with the ad hominem attacks that are so quickly flung out by the advocates of evolution against those who do not agree with them. It demeans the debate when they cannot stick to the facts and feel they must resort to name-calling to reasure themselves that they have it right.

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